Careers Adviser Jordan Tanner and former apprentice Hannah Worsley join us live in the studio to talk about what steps young people should be taking to get on the first rung of the career ladder

Have you ever wanted to follow in the footsteps of Jamie Oliver or Sir Richard Branson? Or do you have a burning desire to make it big in business? If so, we have a special appointment with Jordan Tanner on behalf of the Learning and Skills Council, who’s here today to tell us how you can make those all important first steps on the career ladder. Also joining him is former apprentice Hannah Worsley, now development manager at one of the UK’s leading childcare providers, kidsunlimited.

This webchat comes to you exclusively as part of the Learning and Skills Council’s first annual Apprenticeship Week, which offers young people or anyone considering starting a new career advice and support along the way. There are more than 180 Apprenticeships available in approximately 80 sectors of industry and commerce, ranging from accountancy to football, engineering to veterinary nursing, business administration to construction.

There are no set entry requirements for Apprenticeships, and anyone aged 16 and above is eligible to become an apprentice. As all apprentices are paid a salary, taking part in Apprenticeships is the ideal way to learn while you earn.

So whether you see yourself as the next member of the backroom staff at your favourite football team, an engineer in waiting or a financial whiz, talk to Careers Adviser Jordan Tanner and former apprentice Hannah Worsley, who both join us now…

Careers Adviser Jordan Tanner and former apprentice Hannah Worsley join us live on Thursday 28th February at 15.30 to discuss the first ever LSC Apprenticeship Week…

M: Lis Speight, moderator
J: Jordan Tanner, Learning and Skills Council
H: Hannah Worsley, ex-apprentice

M: Hello and welcome to the Education Show. I'm Lis Speight. Now, have you ever wanted to follow in the footsteps of Jamie Oliver, or how about Sir Richard Branson? Do you have a real burning desire to make it big in business? Well if so you've come to the right place because we have a special appointment today with Jordan Tanner whose from the Learning and Skills Council – welcome along Jordan, great to see you today. And also Hannah Worsley has joined us and Hannah started out her career, her working life as an apprentice which is what we're here to talk about. This is National Apprenticeship Week, so if you have any questions at all about apprenticeships, about how to start out in your career then you can get involved because this is your show. We are live and if you want to ask a question to Jordan or to Hannah then all you have to do is type your name and your question in the box that's on the screen, press submit and it'll come through to us here in the studio and we'll try to tackle as many of your questions as we can during the course of the show. But let's start off by asking Jordan a little bit about Apprenticeship Week – it sounds obvious but what's it all about?

J: Well this is the first National Apprenticeship Week, and really it's to raise the profile of apprenticeships to people that may be interested, aren't quite sure about them and also to businesses as well that maybe want to offer them or do offer them as well. It started on Monday 25th and ends on the 29th, Friday – tomorrow and it coincides with the Apprenticeship Awards as well which the closing date for applications is the 29th

M: Apprenticeship awards – moving on quite nicely to Hannah because you actually won one of these awards didn't you?

H: Yes I was runner-up in the first ever awards in 2004, and I've been heavily involved with the Apprenticeship Awards ever since, about raising the profile really and identifying recognition for people that have done well throughout their careers as an apprentice

M: So you started out as an apprentice – tell us a little bit about your career path and what you got out of it?

H: I started off as a management apprentice in retail and took on a management level 4 qualification

M: And how old were you when you started that?

H: I was 19

M: So you'd done A Levels had you?

H: I'd done A levels, hadn't wanted to go to university, decided it wasn't for me. I enjoyed learning but exams were never my forte

M: Right

H: I wanted to learn the skills as I was doing a job and getting paid for it all at the same time

M: Which is a good option isn't it –

H: Yes

M: For a lot of people. There's such a pressure to go onto university, to go onto higher education now but it's now always the case – it's not right for everybody is it?

H: No I think a lot of people are pushed down that route because they don't know what route to take, and it's not necessarily right for them and at the end of it they still don't know what they want to do and I think if people know what they want to do they should go out there and do it, and obviously the apprenticeships support that because there's 200 apprenticeships out there that are across 80 different sectors so there's many apprenticeships out there that will match the needs of the business or of an individual that actually wants to take a certain career path

M: And what did you get out of it then?

H: Well I got to understand why I did things in a certain way, not only from a business perspective but from a knowledge perspective as well

M: Explain what you mean by that?

H: Well the qualifications are based on performance criteria and also based on knowledge so you actually perform in certain areas of the business you also gain the knowledge of why you do those things to a certain standard, so they're generic across a management or childcare or retail or even the building industry, whatever kind of apprenticeship you choose to do, those knowledge and the understanding that you get you can then relate to any kind of business, not just the one that you're working for at that particular time

M: So you don't come out with a degree but you do come out with a qualification that you can then take on?

H: Yes I've got an advanced apprenticeship, the one I've done was actually sort of recognised at degree level anyway so there's different levels, there's ones that are aimed at sort of GCSE level. The advanced apprenticeships are aimed at sort of A level standard, and then if you go up to level 4 that's done towards degree level

M: Yes so Jordan apprenticeship, it sounds sort of quite an old-fashioned word really isn't it, you tend to think of it in the olden days you were a carpenter and you got an apprenticeship. I mean I started off as sort of like an apprentice because I was a trainee journalist and I was what they call indentured into my newspaper so I got – I got all my training paid for and then I ended up with all my journalism qualifications after it, so it's been going on for years and years, it's obviously an old-fashioned idea but is it sort of coming more into fashion again now?

J: Absolutely, I mean there are currently 240,000 people – apprentices in the UK

M: That's amazing

J: That's covering 130,000 businesses in the UK that are offering these apprenticeships as well so

M: And what sort of business can you go into, you tend to particularly think of maybe building industry don't you but is there something for everybody?

J: Yes I mean there's a great range of opportunities as Hannah said there are around 200 different types of apprenticeship across 80 different sectors

M: Give us an idea of what that –

J: Could be anything from football for instance to plumbing to animal care or hairdressing, so there's really something for everyone

M: And men and women as well do you think?

J: Yes absolutely

M: And are certain areas quite heavily over-subscribed – I mean I imagine the footballing one would be quite over-subscribed. I mean how difficult is it to actually get into the field that you want to get into?

J: Well as with any industry something like football or media or the arts, these are industries that are quite – have a – are heavily subscribed, over-subscribed, but really the apprenticeship offers an alternative to other routes, maybe traditional education, so it's just – it's another way of getting access to those

M: Yes and you get paid a salary do you?

J: Yes there's a minimum salary which is not going to be below £80 a week

M: Right

J: And a recent study commissioned by the LSC found that on average apprentices were earning £137 a week

M: Right. And what sort of age is it aimed at

H: You can start an apprenticeship from the age of 16 upwards so there's no sort of restriction on the age limit, on the upper age limit. Obviously you need to be 16 and older to start the apprenticeship, but depending on who you work for will depend on what salary you're getting. For example we employ apprentices at Kids Unlimited and they're –

M: Which is where you work now?

H: Yes which is where I work now and they're all on a full-time salary working a full-time week, but they also do the apprenticeship as part of that working week, so they're on a full-time salary and that's the same across many different industries and businesses that offer apprenticeships

M: Yes. And I know a lot of people out there will be thinking oh if I'm an apprentice I'll just end up making the tea

H: Yes there is that perception and I think there's also the perception out there that apprentices are – it's an easy option and I certainly know that's definitely not the case

M: No

H: Apprenticeship – people undertake an apprenticeship because generally they want to get on in life and they actually want to do something with their career, and many people that start an apprenticeship move forward with a business and probably get into a management position over a period of time, and it's about being dedicated because as an apprentice you have to do the job but you also have to learn the skills to do it

M: Yes

H: It's a balancing act really. I mean when I did my apprenticeship I did the full-time job, I did the apprenticeship and many an evening I was sat there studying on my apprenticeship to drive that forward. But at the end of the day I've reaped the rewards from that because I've progressed my career as a result of doing it

M: Yes and what are the chances Jordan of actually getting a job at the end of that, either with the company you're with or –

J: Yes well there are two routes really which you could take. Generally the employer may take you on as a full-time member of staff anyway, so you would be employed by the company and training at the same time

M: Right

J: Or you would be taken on as a non-employed member of staff. You would be earning the allowance which they could set – nothing below £80 a week. And there is a high likelihood that you would be taken on at the end of that. If not you – the apprenticeship has set you up with the relevant work experience as well as a national recognised qualification which hopefully would leave you in a better situation than if you –

M: If you hadn't had – so it stands you in pretty good stead then when you're actually going out and –

J: Yes absolutely

M: Into the world of work

H: And I think employers recognise apprenticeships now far greater than they used to 5, 10 years ago because what an apprenticeship shows is that they've got the underpinning knowledge, they've got the skills and the experience of doing the job but they've also go the qualification so they've got the two, they've got the qualification and they've got the hands-on experience which is what a lot of employers are looking for when they go to recruit

M: Yes ok well it's interesting stuff and we've had quite a few of your questions coming in actually so let's move on to some of those – now there's a good one here from Trevor in Lincolnshire – he wants to know “I'm nearly 40 and I'm thinking of a career change. Have I left it too late to become an apprentice?” That's an interesting one isn't it? Jordan what do you think? Is 40 a bit late?

J: Well the LSC have opened up apprenticeships to people over 25 and they've been trialling it over the last year or so in different areas of the country, and that will be rolling out at some point so those opportunities should open up in the future, yes

M: Yes and if you're 40 I suppose you've got life skills to offer that maybe someone that's 16 hasn't

J: Absolutely

M: So it's just finding your particular career path isn't it?

H: Yes and also it's never too late to kind of follow your passion and if they look at the apprenticeship website which is apprenticeship.org.uk that will give them further information, but also they could seek guidance from their local college because they'll be able to push them in the right direction for the apprenticeship or the qualification that will best meet the needs of what they want to pursue

M: Ok now if you start an apprenticeship and you decide it's just not for you, are you kind of tied into it for a certain amount of time Jordan?

J: You may have signed a learning agreement with that company or the training provider but not essentially, you could still leave that employment. It would just be like any other job

M: Right

J: When you apply for it you would have a job interview at the beginning of that as well

M: Right but it doesn't obviously look good if you start chopping and changing a lot does it?

H: No but I mean if you chose the wrong option you could probably transfer that over to another apprenticeship

M: Within the same scheme yes

H: So you could start one and if you decided after a couple of weeks it wasn't for you then there would be no reason why you couldn't transfer that apprenticeship to another sector that might interest you more

J: Any units that you'd done on your qualification, if you'd completed those would still -they would never go away, they will always keep those

M: It still counts, well that's a good point. Ok now we've had a question from Charlie from Woodbridge and he wants to know “surely the” – well actually he says “Surely the only way to get on these days is to get a university degree?” I think Hannah's living proof that that's not the case!

H: Yes I get asked this question quite a lot

M: Do you think you've missed out by not going to university?

H: Not really, I guess the only bit that I kind of missed out on was the social life, but I haven't got any debts to my name because obviously I didn't inherit the debts that are associated with university. I think university is a really good way of gaining qualifications and obviously developing yourself, not only with a qualification with life skills, but also an apprenticeship can do that because you gain the life skills of being in employment, you gain the life skills of actually having to be responsible and being mature about whatever it is that you're doing and I think no route is better, I think they're both as good as each other, it depends what that individual really wants to pursue. I did an advanced apprenticeship, I've now got a very responsible job for a leading childcare company as a learning development manager and that's purely as a result of the apprenticeship I started back when I was 19.

M: Yes so it proved that if you work hard and you're committed that you can get on, and also you get a kind of head start on everyone else because you're 3 years ahead in the world of work

H: Yes

M: And you've got to be responsible for money and you know it is – it's just you're pushing on with your career quicker maybe than – and therefore you're going to have money in the future. I don't know, it's all swings and roundabouts really isn't it? But as you say you're not going to have any debt from university which –

H: No

M: Some people take years and years paying that off aren't they –

H: And the friends of mine that went to university, as they came out of university I was sort of at the same position they were when they'd kind of finished university so it kind of matches itself out, if not slightly ahead in some cases

M: Yes, yes ok. Well it's horses for courses as they say. Right now we've had a question in from – this is an interesting one actually – Tomeq says “I'm originally from Poland, I have a university degree, I wonder if there are options for me as I'm away from home?” What do you think Jordan?

J: Ok I mean if he's – is he – does he

M: Doesn't say

J: want to do a apprenticeship or –

M: I think that's what he means yes thinking about doing an apprenticeship

J: Well first of all I'd recommend that he checks out what his qualification is equivalent to in the UK and there's a service called Naric which – if you can search for that on the internet

M: How do you spell that?

J: N-A-R

H: Naric

M: Right

J: Yes. And that's the qualification conversion organisation. But there's no reason why he wouldn't be able to do an apprenticeship in this country, but what I would recommend is just see what –

M: What his skills are and how he might be able to transfer them across?

J: Yes

M: Ok. And how do employers benefit from apprenticeships? Hannah what would you say?

H: Well as a business our staff have to be qualified to a certain level. A childcare company and Ofsted stipulate that are staff are qualified to either level 2 or level 3 so as a business we can't function without apprenticeships because we need the staff to be qualified, but what apprenticeships do for us as a business, it improved our retention, our staff morale is great, our staff are committed and motivated and they want to come to work because they genuinely have a passion of working with children, and that's the same across any business. It's proven that apprentices, because they choose that as their route, are committed

M: Yes that's a really good point actually isn't it

H: And they want to do that job, so they're prepared to go the extra mile, they're prepared to put the extra hours in and the extra commitment to actually get out of their career what they want to put in

M: Yes ok. So the employers basically get much more committed staff and –

H: Yes and also I would say as an apprentice you get to mould them to how you want them to work within your business

M: Yes

H: So although the apprenticeship is generic for whatever sect they choose, as a business if they're working through their apprenticeship with you, you get to mould them to how you want them to perform for you, so you're not inheriting somebody whose got bad skills because you're developing the skills that they require

M: Yes that's interesting. And are people generally mature enough at that age? I mean if you are leaving school at 16, are you sort of mature enough to cope with the world of work?

H: It's like anybody, you're always going to get those that are mature enough and you're always going to get those that maybe aren't as mature as maybe they should be, but I think anybody that starts their job for the first time is always going to be slightly less mature than maybe what you'd hope for but if they start the apprenticeship the apprenticeship moulds them to become more mature and obviously guides them through their working life

M: Yes so at least you've got somebody guiding your hand, whereas if you just go straight into work you wouldn't, without the apprenticeship you wouldn't have that would you? Ok now Samantha from London, she's written in, she says “do apprenticeships offer the chance to gain professionally qualifications? Sort of answered that a little bit haven't we?

H: I mean they offer apprenticeships in accountancy for example and obviously accountancy is obviously associated with going to college or going to university and that's how you sort of gain accountancy qualifications so you can do an accountancy apprenticeship and do a management apprenticeship, so those are sort of probably sectors that people don't presume that you can do an apprenticeship in

J: And if you work up to the level 4 and 5 then that is considered at degree level or higher, so – and those are professional qualifications

M: Is there plenty of information at school for people to – I mean what sort of advice do parents – or to pupils at school who are sort of thinking of going into this but don't really know where to start and what there is on offer?

J: Well pupils at school they can go to their local careers advisor, based in their school or in their local connection centre to find out further information about that. If anyone's interested they can look at the apprenticeships.org.uk website as well for further information

M: Ok. And Hannah what would be your top tips as to how to get on in the apprenticeship world?

H: Identify what it is you want to do, not what other people think you should do, and I think that's important when you make any career decision. It's got to be right for you as an individual. Now this morning we spoke to a lady that had chosen to do engineering

M: Right

H: And obviously that's quite unusual for a woman to do that, but you should pursue what your passion is because at the end of the day your passion will help you develop your career. So I would say choose something that you want to do and if you're not sure about it maybe go and do some work experience there before you actually sign up to do the apprenticeship

M: That's a good idea

H: Because by doing the experience you'll gain an understanding of what that business or organisation is about, understand whether you think that's for you and that's then maybe when you could start your apprenticeship, so you actually know that's right for you

M: Ok. Well Hannah is living proof that apprenticeships do work, and Hannah is really coming on with her career incredibly well so thanks very much Hannah and also Jordan for coming in and talking to us about apprenticeships, and if you want any more information about your next career step, about how to get into apprenticeships, whether or not they may be for you, you can go to the website which is www.apprenticeships.org.uk, and there's loads of information there on the different areas you can go into, so take Hannah as your role model and you should do ok! Thanks very much, that's all we've got time for on the Education Show today and we'll see you next time. Bye bye

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