Host: Mark Ryes (MR)

Guests: Ally Stevens (AS), Vodafone
Simon Weston (SW), Falklands veteran and judge of the 'Lifesavers' Awards
Dave Phillips (DP) Royal and Berkshire Fire Service

MR: Hallo there, welcome to today's show, I'm Mark Ryes. Well, with natural disasters that happen and indeed, terrorism in our cities, we are relying more and more on the unsung heroes of the emergency services and to that aim, Vodafone has launched the 'Lifesavers' Award so that the unsung heroes can actually get a little bit of recognition. Now in association with the 'Lifesavers' Award there's another campaign being launched today about hoax impact because, unbelievably, fifty thousand hoax calls to 999 are made every year. We'll be talking about that campaign in just a few moments' time but first let me introduce Ally Stevens from Vodafone so that we can talk about 'Lifesavers'. Ally, a very good afternoon to you.

AS: Hi there.

MR: This award scheme has been going for several years now. Can you just bring us up to speed, who is eligible and why are you doing it?

AS: Well, who's eligible, absolutely anybody. Lifesavers is in its fifth year now, in association with 'The Daily Express' and Sky News and what we're looking for is anybody who's been out there, whether they're emergency services, members of the public, who have saved life in the last eighteen months.

MR: So it really is wide-ranging then.

AS: Absolutely.

MR: Because last year's winners involved tsunami heroes as well and we are talking heroes here. Let me bring in Simon Weston, because Simon Weston as we all know, is a Falklands veteran and a hero and also a judge of the 'Lifesavers' Awards as well, Simon, good afternoon to you. You know more than most, I suspect, what the word 'hero' means. What will you be looking for as a judge?

SW: Well you're looking for all different things because sometimes it's hard to separate people and you're just looking for something slightly different, whether it be the age of the rescuer, whether it be the fact that they're not trained in a field, the risks they take. You're just trying to find so, so much to try and make the difference because how do you separate somebody who's saved a life from somebody else who's saved a life?

MR: And we're not necessarily talking professionals are we and we're not necessarily talking emergency services, it's anyone who's saved a life.

SW: Yes, school children, pedestrian crossing guards, shoppers, you know, when somebody who's just out shopping and they could see somebody have a heart attack, or they could be seeing somebody actually being assaulted. It could be a car accident they're just a passer-by. We had a terrible incident where we actually made the award to people – there'd been a head-on crash and people risked their lives by breaking the windows, getting into the car and dragging people out, dragging the children. One child did die but they managed to save the rest of the family, which was immense and so the majority of the family is still alive.

MR: And the stories that you hear whilst preparing for this and whilst being a judge must be horrific. We'll come to some more of that in just a moment, Simon and Ally, if that's okay. I just want to point out to you that you can come in and you can involve yourself this afternoon. You can come in and send a question on the little screen in front of me. All you've got to do on the little box that you're watching us on, you'll see a 'Name' box and a 'Question' box. Please do submit your questions to us and we will answer them this afternoon if we can and we'll also find out a little more about the 'Hoax Impact' campaign in just a little while as well. So Ally, in terms of people getting involved there's a website that people can go to. There is actually a link on our page as well, which is www.Vodafone.co.uk/Lifesavers.

AS: That's right.

MR: What can we find out from the website?

AS: You can find out lots of information. You can find out about the previous winners because, to be honest, there have been some fantastic stories in the five years that we've been going.

MR: Like what, what's your favourite one? I know it's a difficult thing to ...

AS: It's very difficult.

SW: It's almost impossible to choose out one individual story but for me it's always the children. There were the brothers who saved the one brother who was knocked down by a hit-and-run driver. They were able to get contact, they managed to stop somebody and they managed to save their brother's life and it was just the amazing recovery of this young lad and then they brought on Joe Pasquale at the award ceremony and it was the look of absolute delight of this young man as he saw his sort of comedic hero come onto the stage and he gave this fantastic speech, it was really hilarious. But, I mean, it was just the sheer sort of courage and the quick-thinking ability of his brothers to save his life. Two young girls who dived into a river to save a young boy who had fallen and bashed his head and then there was the family up in Scotland with two women who couldn't swim who leapt into a river to save a whole family. The mother was saving the sons and leapt into the river and saved them herself. It's just continual stories about people that just go beyond the pale. They go that extra yard to make a difference.

MR: And how many winners are you looking for?

AS: We're looking for ten.

SW: It's ten this year, yeah, ten categories.

MR: And presumably, you get in an awful lot of stories and that's where you come in at home, by the way because you're looking for genuine stories, genuine life-saving stories from people to be nominated for the 'Lifesavers' How can people nominate?

AS: Well they can nominate via the website like you say, which is www.Vodafone.co.uk/Lifesavers or they can go to the Hotline, which I think ...

MR: I've got the number here. It's 0870 902 3333. That's 0870 902 3333. Is there any age limit? Is there any kind of restrictions at all?

AS: None whatsoever, none whatsoever. It doesn't mean you have to have saved a life in the UK, you could have saved a life abroad. Like you say, we had a gentleman last year who saved a number of lives in the tsunami so there's no range, there's no limitations. We just want to hear from you really.

MR: It's interesting, I'm interested particularly, in Vodafone's connection with this because 999 calls, now you can call from anywhere because of mobile communications.

AS: Absolutely.

MR: So it's right that a company like that should be involved, I guess. I just want to bring in Dave Phillips because Dave is the Community Safety Manager from the Royal and Berkshire Fire Service. Dave, there's another whole side to this and it's a much more sinister side really. As we were saying earlier on, fifty thousand hoax telephone calls to 999 every year. Who's making these calls?

DP: Yes, it is a huge problem and we're delighted to have the opportunity to raise awareness of this problem. Our experience is it's mainly younger people who are making the calls.

MR: So kids, in effect?

DP: It is kids, yes. Through the 'Hoax Impact' campaign, supporting 'Lifesavers' we've been able to engage young people to raise awareness of the problem and show what the actual impact could be.

MR: Well, it's interesting that you talk about the impact because really the campaign is focussing on wasting money, wasting lives and wasting time and it really is essential that the calls are genuine that go to 999.

DP: Absolutely, we have to treat every call that comes in, as an emergency. That means we have to respond efficiently and quickly. When we get to the scene we think there may be somebody stuck in a building or in a home etc, there might be children trapped in there, that's how the calls come over sometimes. And as well, you must remember that our fire fighters are going into dangerous situations so it's their safety as well that could be at risk. So of course, when we arrive at a scene we have to make sure that there is an emergency there which delays further time and also there could be an emergency elsewhere so when we find out that it is actually a hoax call it has a big impact on the fire fighters as well.

MR: I've got a question that's just come in Dave, actually, from Caroline, thank you for your question, Caroline. 'Why is 'Hoax Impact' only targeting sixteen year olds and A level students? Why that age range in particular?'

DP: Okay, hallo Caroline. Yes, we wanted to engage in a new way of raising awareness of hoax calls and the idea was born that we could try to depict it through A level students working on art, to try and paint a picture of what the effect of hoax calling is but to spread the message as widely as we can, those A level students will then spread the message through their school years to their own school. And their message will be given to feeder primary schools so that message will have even wider impact. So really starting with the sixteen year olds, it was a starting point for us to reach as many young people as we could, engaging with young people to get the message over in the way that it might be received in the best way.

MR: And you've contacted ten thousand schools up to this point. Is this spreading across the whole country?

DP: Yes, we've had interest across the North West and the North East as well as here in the South East. And it is spreading every month as the message gets through, through the support of the 'Lifesavers' Award and so it is actually raising awareness. But more people are able to get involved in what has been a successful campaign that we've run here in the South East.

MR: So why was it Royal Berkshire that got involved in the first place then?

DP: It was an opportunity to work with Vodafone and with local educationists. It is a problem for us and we had the idea of something which was really innovative to capture the imagination and that's why we were keen to work in partnership because it was the opportunity to raise this issue that is a big problem for the Fire Rescue Service but for all emergency services across the country.

MR: That question came in from Hilary, thank you very much indeed for your question, Hilary. She was asking why the Royal Berkshire had got involved. Gemma wants to know. 'What happens at present to people who make hoax calls? How do you trace them? What happens to them if you do trace them?'

DP: That's a very good question and I think that's the key now, is that a lot more calls are coming through from mobile phones. However they are made they are now traceable and that is the key so if anyone thinks that they are making a call and they can get away with it, that is not the case anymore.

MR: So even if you buy your number it is still traceable and it's an important message to get across, that.

DP: It is and we will trace those calls and every call is passed on to the police and they will be traced and people can be prosecuted if it is proved that they made that call.

MR: To be fair, kids don't think about that kind of thing which is why this is such an important awareness campaign, I guess.

DP: Absolutely, it is. If we can raise awareness, it may be that people just aren't aware of this impact. If we can just start in that way, to show what the effects could be, working with the people who might be doing this inadvertently, that is the way, perhaps, to make a big impact on the number of calls we have. To drop that fifty thousand calls down.

MR: Indeed, absolutely. Another question's come in. John has emailed us, hallo John, thank you for your question. He says, 'the Hoax Impact' scheme is not at my son's school yet. Is there anything that I can do to try and encourage them to take it up? How can I get involved?

DP: Yes, there is information on the website, I think we ...

MR: So go to the website.

DP: Absolutely, and it is available for schools to access the lesson plans that can be put together to promote this. Also we have raised awareness through Fire and Rescue services around the country and so it is possible that schools that are in contact with their local Fire and Rescue service can talk about this scheme and maybe put it on in their local area.

AS: It's worth bearing in mind that we're also in the process of rolling out ten thousand posters to schools nationwide.

MR: Fantastic, we've got a copy of the poster here.

AS: We have.

MR: It's a good chance to mention it and you can find out more of course by going to the website which is www.Vodafone.co.uk/lifesavers. Here's the poster and this has actually been designed by an A level student, hasn't it.

AS: Absolutely, it's been designed by an eighteen year old. A young lady called Sophie Ness, who lives in West Berkshire. We had a number of schools involved with the pilot and this was the winning design and we all fell in love with the design, it's so powerful.

MR: It's a very clever design, if you look at it, it's a series of children's faces, I'm not sure how closely we can get in and in two of the spaces where there should be children's faces there are gravestones showing that hoax calls waste time, waste money and indeed, as you can see, they waste lives. Very clever, it's a very powerful image, that actually.

SW: It is, it is. One of the difficult things is to get young people to understand the real cost, not just the financial cost of wasting time could mean to somebody trapped in a building you know or trapped in a fire. I'm living proof of what can happen in a fire and I'm lucky. But there are an awful lot of people that don't get that opportunity because time is being wasted in responding to the crisis call that the Fire Service get. They need every moment they can get to be there before the fire really takes hold and if you're delayed, the lucky ones will end up looking like me. The very unlucky ones are the ones who are carried out and never get to see anybody ever again and that's a terrible, terrible thing to do just for a laugh, just for a giggle. And that's why we really must make this point, you know. The 'Hoax Impact' is such a crucial campaign to get all youngsters to understand what they're doing. It's not just about cash, it's not just about wasting people's time for fun. It's about wasting people's time when they could save a life.

MR: Absolutely, and it's very important for the emergency services that they get that point across. So these posters are available for schools.

AS: Absolutely.

MR: And you talk, Dave, about lesson plans and curriculum plans. That's good because it can actually be pushed in so that the kids can actually make it part of the school life.

DP: Definitely, this is exactly what happened here in the scheme, 'Hoax Impact' here in the Royal Berkshire Fire and Rescue Service. It was linked directly to the A level work that the students were doing which counted towards their exams and that's good, effective use of the school time. The feedback we were getting was it was really engaging for the young people. They were engaged with it and apparently the results reflected that.

MR: Well Becky's come up with an interesting question, Dave. We understand that we're targeting A level students and sixteen year olds. What Becky wants to know is, 'Will 'Hoax Impact' target very younger children in the near future because very young children have mobile phones these days?'

DP: Yes, absolutely and those are the age groups we are trying to reach. We will be cascading that message through to the primary schools from the A level student schools and we're hoping that the message, depicted in this way, that's come up from young people, will have an impact on those young people from the primary schools.

MR: Excellent stuff. Thank you very much indeed. Keep your questions coming in. We're about half way through the show this afternoon so please do keep sending your questions in whether it's about Vodafone 'Lifesavers', whether it's about the awards themselves or whether it's about the 'Hoax Impact' campaign, we'd love to hear from you this afternoon. Just send in your question, your name comes up on the screen here with your question. We'd love you to get involved this afternoon. As we've been saying this afternoon, five years of the Lifesavers Awards now. It must be that people are thinking, 'Wow, I'd like to nominate someone.' There's a certain resistance though because people don't want to get up there and say, 'I did this.' You know, it's a very un-British thing really, isn't it.

AS: Absolutely, there's a lot of British reserve going on out there and what we're trying to say is don't be shy and what we're finding is the further on we go into the campaign and year after year we're finding more and more people coming forward and actually nominating people who don't want to talk about what they've been doing. So we're actually, 'My neighbour did this' or 'My neighbour did that for me' or '... for friends of mine and I want to recognise them' and that's really nice.

MR: Let's talk about the glitzy side because there is a glitzy side of all awards there is a glitzy side obviously. Simon, the award ceremony is later on in the year, it's being shown on Sky News, the partners with this. Tell us a little bit more about past years and the award ceremonies that have gone on. What's it like? What happens?

SW: It's just a very sort of posh thrash really. You get a chance to go to 10 Downing Street and meet the Prime Minister and his good lady and several other people.

MR: Yes, Tony Blair's very behind this, isn't he.

SW: Very much so, yeah and so is Cherie as well. They're very keen about young people. Well, they've got four children, why wouldn't they be.

MR: Indeed.

SW: But the fact is they're very keen to see young people stay alive and people to stay alive and anybody that risks their lives should be honoured and recognised and this is where the 'Lifesavers' Award comes in and they go from there then to the Savoy. It is to be in the Savoy, isn't it?

AS: No, we've changed the venue this year.

SW: Changed the venue

MR: Excellent, that's it. Where's the swanky bash this year then?

AS: Café Royal. It's the Café Royal this year.

SW: Oh well, just as nice. They'll be going to the café Royal and then in previous years, what's happened is we've had lots of celebrities as surprises for people. People haven't known that they're going to be there to present the awards to them and there's been lots of celebrities have turned up to honour them which makes it just that little bit more special for those people who've saved a life. But also we've managed to get some of the people who've had their lives saved, they've turned up as well to say their own personal thank you. So there's a format now and it runs along, for those who go there, I've been fortunate enough to be involved in this from the beginning so I know the format now but it's always wonderful to see and I'm always surprised by some of the celebrities who turn up and like I say, Joe Pasquale turned up that time and that will stick with me because of that little boy's face.

MR: Absolutely, well it's interesting you raise the little boy bit because it really proves that heroes come in all shapes, all sizes, all colours, all religions.

SW: Absolutely. There's no discriminatory factor at all. It could even be somebody who's disabled, who's saved a life. You know, nobody's discriminated from being able to do it and that means that nobody's discriminated against when it comes to making the nominations and people receiving the award as well. There used to be a time factor, it had to be within a two year period that they'd saved a life so they could get nominated because otherwise you could go right back to the Second World War.

MR: Indeed yes, absolutely.

SW: So there has to be a reasonable time period and a time frame. But however and whenever it took place I'm sure it will be looked at with a totally non-judgemental eye, it will be looked at with a fair eye and everybody will be given their chance. But we want as many people to be nominated as possible because there are acts carried out every single day of bravery and of lifesaving that are done every single day. People just pass it off, 'We've done it, so what'.

MR: The heroes are out there and we want to hear from them.

SW: Absolutely.

MR: Ally, let's just run through how you can nominate again. Telephone number 0870 902 3333 which is the number you can ring today so make sure you've thought about it or the website is www.Vodafone.co.uk/Lifesavers.

AS: That's right.

MR: And there's lots more information there as well. One thing I want to come on to Ally, and it really does appertain to Vodafone and mobile communications. Ten, twenty, thirty years ago, you broke down and had an accident in your car, time was of the essence for the emergency services to get to you but it was whether you would be seen by a motorway camera, something like that or by another motorist who would alert the emergency services.

MR: And there's lots more information there as well. One thing I want to come on to Ally, and it really does appertain to Vodafone and mobile communications. Ten, twenty, thirty years ago, you broke down and had an accident in your car, time was of the essence for the emergency services to get to you but it was whether you would be seen by a motorway camera, something like that or by another motorist who would alert the emergency services.

MR: Now, the call can be almost instantaneous.

AS: Absolutely.

MR: And presumably, mobile communications has changed the way that the emergency services run almost fundamentally I would have thought.

AS: Yes, absolutely and this is one of the reasons why we are so proud of 'Lifesavers' and the message we want to get across here is actually your mobile phone is an important part of your emergency tool kit in your car. You should carry a mobile phone in your car just as you should carry a first aid kit because if you're that unfortunate person who's the first one on the scene of an accident or it's you that's involved, that's when your mobile phone becomes the most important thing you've ever owned and that's why we want people to realise that the mobile phone is an important, important part of the first aid kit.

MR: Dave, I can see you nodding over there. You are obviously in agreement that mobile communications have changed the way that the emergency services operate out of all recognition.

DP: Absolutely, it's easier for people to call us in an emergency. Our message is still, 'Get out, stay out and get us out.' if there's an emergency in a house and so it helps people to make that call to us and that is why we want to stress that it is the emergency calls that we have to respond to. We need that communication to get us to the scene of an incident but also to treat that mode of communication wisely because if you don't, there is another impact and that's what our campaign is about.

MR: Absolutely, I think it's really important that we've re-mentioned 'Hoax Impact' there as well because part of this is the astonishing figure that fifty thousand hoax calls are made to 999 every year, nationally. Which is an incredible figure, when I read it you would think surely people have better things to do, with the Internet and television and with everything else going on but kids will be kids, I guess, but they need to be shown that there is an impact.

DP: Absolutely, it is staggering, the number is staggering, the effect is staggering and I think, coming back to the campaign and there being a poster, it's the way that the young people depicted what could happen is fascinating. All kinds of designs came up, there were photographs of fires, and there was artwork, all kinds. Some people produced plays as to what the outcome of a hoax call could be, absolutely fascinating. And so we must keep stressing that hoax calls are still happening, that we have a lot of work to do with it and this 'Hoax Impact' campaign hopefully will spread across the country, more people will become involved with it and we can start to eradicate what really is a nuisance for us to achieve our aim of people not making hoax calls.

MR: I think it's interesting what you said was that with this campaign, people will be traced, and their details will be passed to the police. There are serious consequences for the individual as well. Not only for the fact that they have wasted time of the emergency services.

DP: It's for the individual, for their families when people find out. It may well be that the family just doesn't know that the young person is making the call. So there's a impact widely for them, their parents, the school they're involved with, their friends. When people find out what the impact could be and they know the people making the call it could have an effect on everybody so peer pressure is something that might help put people off making hoax calls.

MR: We've had quite a lot of questions come in. Thank you very much for sending them in. Another one has come in from Brian, 'How much do hoax calls cost the tax payer?' because obviously, we pay for the emergency services so this impacts every single one of us.

DP: Absolutely, like I said, there's wide-ranging impact. But in monetary terms around £2,000 a call.

MR: Per call! That's incredible.

DP: Per call and when you multiply that by the fifty thousand you see what effect that is having on the fire service of the country.

MR: It really does make you gasp, Simon, doesn't it?

SW: That's staggering!

MR: We've had a couple of questions in about the 7th of July bombings of last year and I'm wondering, because their heroism really saved a lot of lives across that day. Have we had any stories in of people nominating the heroes from the 7th of July bombings, do we know?

SW: I've not actually seen the list yet.

AS: No, we haven't.

MR: It's too early yet.

AS: We're still concentrating on getting the nominations in but I wouldn't be at all surprised if we do.

MR: I wouldn't be at all surprised either. And some of last year's winners as we mentioned from the tsunami so there were really big, tragic events from around the world as you said, so it doesn't have to be in the UK, it can be anywhere in the world.

SW: Well we had a young lady who was in the Bam earthquake in Iran, where the Bam earthquake happened and she was scrambling around in her bare feet, pulling people out from rubble and getting people involved to try and get people out of hostels; Because there were a lot of Europeans that were over there in these hostels and they went on to save locals and they were commandeering vehicles, incredible feats of bravery and selfless courage to make sure people were okay and then came back and started other projects to make sure people were looked after back down there. So it doesn't necessarily have to be the ones that you're mostly focussed upon. It could be classed as slightly minor things but I mean to the people in Bam at that point in time and to those people in the hostel it was the biggest earthquake they'd ever been in.

MR: Of course, absolutely. It's very interesting what you say, Simon, but Dave, you see bravery on a daily basis from your colleagues.

DP: Yes, yes.

MR: But what we're saying here is the unsung heroes who never thought they would ever be heroes, they just find themselves in situations and when you find yourself in an emergency situation it's sometimes amazing how you react.

DP: Oh, absolutely and we've come across people who've done incredible feats of bravery just before we've arrived at a scene and it does take a lot to do that. I think what a lot of people say is that they feel they just have to do something. That takes over and they actually perform heroically. And that's why these awards are so important. Their acts are so important for the emergency services and we see a lot of it every day.

MR: And this is what we're talking about, these are the kinds of acts we're talking about. Heroes that never thought they would have to be in that kind of situation, never wanted to be in that situation and never asked to be in that situation still having come up with amazing feats of bravery.

AS: the sisters, last year from Scotland, they actually jumped into a river and they couldn't swim.

SW: Yeah, they couldn't swim, that's right.

MR: So that really shows that we're not thinking about our own safety here.

SW: It's selfless courage a lot of the times but sometimes it's just quick thinking and sometimes it's a four/five year old who makes a phone call and says, 'Mummy's not moving, daddy's not moving', 'mummy and daddy's fallen down the stairs' or '... fallen out the attic' or it could be that they've slipped into a diabetic coma or it could be almost anything. And the child, through their own wit and ability, talent and courage makes the difference and it doesn't necessarily have to be courage. But as long as they've saved a life, that's the difference. It doesn't have to be daring-do all the time, it just has to be common sense, save a life. Help somebody to breath again, put somebody in the recovery position, get somebody out of the water, anything, but it's all about saving a life, that's why it's got the simple title, 'Lifesavers'.

MR: 'Lifesavers', indeed. Dave, this raises an interesting dichotomy for me. It's important to teach young children about 999 and how to call 999 in an emergency. It's equally important, as we've seen with the 'Hoax Impact' campaign, to stress on them that it must only be done in an emergency.

DP: Absolutely. Yes, we try to get both messages in our education. It is important as you mentioned that mobile communication is more important for us today. How we want it to be used properly and we do get that message across but at the same time we do give the reverse side to say at the same time, 'This is what can happen if you treat it wrongly.'

MR: It's a great campaign and it's on buses all over Berkshire certainly at the moment and it's rolling out all over the country so you will see it in your local area very, very soon if you haven't seen it already. The schools can get involved and indeed, you can get involved personally by going to the website which it's well worthwhile saying again. It's www.Vodafone.co.uk/Lifesavers and I've got the telephone number here again. This is for nominations for heroes that we think would be good to be up for an award, isn't it.

AS: The nominations are for anybody whether they're the emergency services or teachers that to get involved with the 'Hoax Impact' campaign as well.

MR: Excellent, that's 0870 902 3333. Question from Steve here, oh here's an interesting one, talking about mobile communications. I'm not sure who's best qualified to answer it, 'Can you still dial 999 on a mobile when it's locked?' Ally, what do you reckon?

AS: Hmm, I'm sure you can. I'm absolutely sure you can

MR: Dave's nodding. I think he definitely does know the answer.

DP: Yes, it is. It is and that can be a problem sometimes in that we receive inadvertent calls via mobile phones. They might go off in people's pockets etc. So it's how you store your mobile phone is important as well because sometimes silent calls come through, silent being people haven't realised because it's gone off automatically.

MR: Treated in the same way as a hoax call or ... ?

DP: If it's traceable it has to be. If we know where the address is we will have to respond.

MR: So adults be careful as well, be careful how you store your phone.

DP: Yes, it's a small number of calls that come through that way, absolutely, that is a message we could get over as well.

MR: Interesting. Emily's got a question. This is one that we know the answer to, 'Is 'Lifesavers' televised and if so, when can we see it?'

AS: Right, okay. It will be televised with our friends at Sky News, they are going to be doing a programme at the moment showing some of the past winners so keep your eye out on Sky News at the moment and then the awards happen in November and I'm sure they will be showing large chunks of it then.

MR: Excellent stuff and it's always with 'The Daily Express' as well so presumably, they'll be doing nomination forms in the Express too, will they?

AS: Yes they will.

MR: Excellent stuff, thank you so much. It's really a fascinating campaign. If you had to take the word 'hero' and suggest what qualities it would be, Simon, let's go to you first of all. What do you think you look for in a hero?

SW: I think heroes are made by other people and they're decided by other people. Deeds and actions are what denotes you to be different at that moment in time so it's impulsive. Where you've got Fire Service, Police Service, people who put their lives at risk every single day, they do it in a predictable way, you know, they've thought about it. But for most people it's impulsive and they do it on the spur of the moment and they just let natural courage take over.

MR: And they're the people that we want to hear about in the Vodafone 'Lifesavers'. Ally and Dave, thank you very much for joining us this afternoon. Fascinating campaign, I wish you all the very best of luck with it. Again that website is on the bottom of our page if you want to go directly to the link, it's www.Vodafone.co.uk/Lifesavers and I'll give you the telephone number one more time if you would like to nominate or find out more, it's 0870 902 3333. Thanks for watching this afternoon and do join us again soon.