H: Katie Pullinger
P: Phil Buckley, The Kennel Club
J: Dr Jeff Samson, Canine Geneticist

H: Hello and welcome to today's pet care show, I'm Katie Pullinger. Now we've always known that man's best friend of course is the dog, but how well do we know them, how much do we actually know about all the different breeds out there? If you were to choose a dog, how would you do that? Well you could always choose from one of 206 pedigree dogs listed with the Kennel Club, and you could be in with a chance of seeing some of those if you wanted to go to Discover Dogs at Earls Court 2, on Saturday and Sunday the 11th and 12th of November at the Dog show. Now today our guests are Dr Jeff Samson who is a canine geneticist, and Phil Buckley who is from the Kennel Club – hello to you

P: Hello

J: Very well, you?

H: Very well thank you – ready to talk about dogs because we've got lots of areas to cover haven't we?

P: Yes

J: Yes

H: Seven specifically. Now if you would like to be asking any questions to our guests today, whatever dog questions you have then all you need to do is submit it in the little box at the bottom of the screen you can pop in your question, tell us where you're from as well and your name and we will try and get through as many as possible. We do already have a lot of questions that have been submitted already so we do have plenty to talk about today. So Phil, tell us about the 7 different areas of dogs that would be judged or covered at the dog show?

P: We've got 7 different groups, you've got toy group, utility group, pastoral group, working group, gundog group, terrier group and…I've said pastoral haven't I?

H: One more…

J: Toy?

P: Toy group

H: So there are a lot of different areas to cover, and how are they actually put into those categories, is it just literally a measurement and a size and things like that?

P: No all dogs were domesticated by man, all dogs evolved from the wolf and they reckon the lines go back to 5 wolves in Canada would you believe, that there's some – that may not be the case but certainly all dogs have come from wolves and domesticated by us and bred for particular reasons –

H: Right

P: Hounds were bred for hunting, terriers the name comes from the Latin Terraferma – going to ground –

H: Ok

P: Gundogs retrieving games, so they're all split into different groups. Now a lot of the dogs don't do what they're originally bred to do-

H: No

P: Dog fighting is banned for example – no people go ratting any more but they've remained in those groups and some of these breeds go back for thousands of years, certainly some of the terriers, and we find it easy just to split it into the 7 groups because you've got these 7 groups then you've got 206 different breeds –

H: It's a lot

P: Yes but I mean more in Europe they recognise 350 different breeds

H: Why is that different to here?

P: We're more selective

H: Oh ok a little bit more exclusive

P: Absolutely

H: And the Kennel Club listing, is that the official listing of Pedigree dogs?

P: Of Pedigree dogs, yes, and each breed has a breed standard and dogs are judged to that standard but also they're bred to that standard so breeders adhere to those standards when they breed dogs

H: So do breeders have their own almost levels as well to say that they've got, always got those number one breeds or categories basically?

P: Yes absolutely

H: Lovely. Now Jeff I just want to ask you to tell us exactly what a canine geneticist is all about, what is it exactly that you do?

J: Ok well I am employed by the KC, by the Kennel Club and my role really is to work with breeders in the first instance to try and get them to think about, before they actually mate two dogs together, think about the potential downstream problems that might arise in terms of health in particular, particularly inherited disease, so that's one level. And many many breeders of course do that really well. Another aspect of my job is to try and interact with both the breeders and the research scientists to develop better tests that breeders can use to pre-screen their breeding stock

H: There we go. Now if a lot of people are trying out all these different types of breeds, and some people are starting to worry that some breeds might suffer from this, that other breeds are coming in and other breeds could possibly even become extinct which is a horrible thought – that's really sad

J: Yes some years ago, a couple of years ago now, the Kennel Club, we began to worry about the low numbers of registrations of some breeds –

H: Ok

J: Particularly our native breeds, breeds native to the UK and Ireland –

H: Like what? Which ones?

J: Well a lot of terriers, there are things like the Lakeland terrier, the Manchester terrier, the Selian Terrier, Irish Red and white setters – about 20 or so of these breeds and we sort of arbitrarily took a level of breeds that registered less than 300 a year, and many of the breeds on that list have had low registration numbers now for a number of years –they're not going up, they're not going down, so I think to talk about extinction's a bit extreme but we do worry that there are so few being registered, and what we wanted to try and understand was why that was the case

H: Do you think sometimes people just aren't registering then?

J: I doubt that's the case with these breeds, I think that most of the litters that are bred we will register, I mean it's certainly true that not everybody registers their pure bred dogs with the Kennel Club but I think in these groups that's not the case, I just think that they're just breeding low numbers

H: Ok well we want to actually have a look at some of the dogs that are out there all the different breeds and we'll be able to show you some footage of one of the shows, and there are 7 different categories which we talked about before which we'll actually be able to have a look at a little bit more clearly in just a second, perhaps you'll be able to talk us through them as well. I think we're going to show that in a just a second – here we go, so tell us a little bit about the categories that we're looking at here

P: That's your hound, that's your Dachshund, that's a stuffed dog! That's a Dachshund –

H: That's a child dressed as a dog

P: That was a Legotto Romognolo, that's Jeff's breed

J: Best dog in the world

H: Oh look at him!

P: And that's a Urasian

H: It looks like a good, fun show

P: Yes it's very family orientated, it's – they're our biggest visitor, families with children

H: Yes

P: And it's prospective owners but it's also owners, and what we like to say if you like dogs you'll absolutely love this event

H: Which again seeing children there is good because some parents might worry about taking their kids to a dog show, especially if their children are a little bit nervous. How is it all laid out – there isn't just dogs racing around the place is there?

P: Well visitors can't bring their dogs

H: Ok

P: Some try but –

H: It's a good thing to remember

P: We can't allow them in, in that we can pretty much guarantee the temperaments of all the dogs in there and that's very important, especially with children and families but there's two or three specimens of each of the 180 breeds that we've got there, and there's breed experts on hand to talk to some people about the breed. So you go round the booths and they're split into the 7 groups including the toy group that Jeff corrected me on earlier! And you can find out all about the breeds, care, training, exercise, grooming needs. And what's good about it, it's not a hard sell. If the breed experts don't think you're right for the breed, for example if you're after a greyhound but they find out you've got 10 cats at home, not arguably the best choice

H: Right

P: Maybe better to go for a gundog that gets on with other pets etc

H: So it's a great place to go if you are looking to get a dog because you will have these experts there ready and waiting –

P: Absolutely

H: To tell you exactly what the best thing is for you. Do you think a lot of people make bad choices, do you think perhaps that's why you get these stories of you know ending up putting their dogs into Battersea dogs home or somewhere like that –

J: Absolutely people kind of make the decision in haste and then sometimes repent at leisure –

H: And they would have been fine if they'd just got the right dog at the right time?

J: I think the essence is if you thinking about getting a family pet then you really have to put the investigation in. You've got to get down there, you've got to talk to people who know the breed, who know the right circumstances, the breed's needs and by doing that you're far more likely to get the right breed for you and have a good experience thereafter

H: Good I mean this is a good time to answer the question I actually have from Dean Webster here and he's saying “I want to buy a dog for our family home, I have 3 children and wish to buy a dog that enjoys the company of children. Are there preferable breeds or is it down to the training?”

P: I think it's pretty much down to the training to be honest

H: Yes

P: All dogs brought up correctly and responsibly should be fine with children, every single breed. Be more careful, never leave a dog unattended with young children – never ever. I mean I've got dogs and Jeff's had dogs but you just wouldn't risk it, it's just not worth the risk, but there should be no problems whatsoever and our advice to Dean would be come down to the show and come and see –

H: Yes exactly

P: These breeds because out of the 180, every one of them will be fine with children

H: I think it also must come to almost training your children as well, I mean –

P: Yes

H: Don't poke the dog with toys, don't put your face right up to it –

P: And let sleeping dogs lie, I mean it's –

H: Exactly

P: That's very very true

H: Well because dogs have mood swings like humans do don't they?

P: Absolutely

H: And if they're in a grumpy mood and they're going to snap, and if someone's nudging their foot in your face I'd bite it as well!

P: Well it's interesting you should say that – and we haven't scripted this – but it's very interesting you say that because we've got the Kennel Club safety around dogs award, which goes into schools and teaches children how to be safe and sound around dogs

H: Ok, that's good

P: And it's interactive but what's been very interesting is the children, the teachers have been doing the test as well but also a lot of misconceptions have been addressed whereby parents have said “never go close to any dogs because they're always going to bite” – but the kids have been going home and saying “well you're wrong about that” so it's great stuff, but with all the bad media attention recently around –

H: Some breeds

P: Some breeds, yes

H: But why do you think it so often is those breeds, I mean I don't want to start pointing fingers at those breeds, but we all know which ones are often in the media, why do you think it has –

P: It's very clear to us, it's an ownership issue, no breeds are born aggressive, they learn from us. I'll give you an example, Pitbull – there were 3 Pitbull terriers at the World Trade Centre disaster, French search and rescue teams use the American Staffordshire terrier which by all intents and purposes is a Pitbull. It's very clearly an ownership issue, they learn from us, very few are born aggressive, the Kennel Club dives behind the headlines when dog incidents do occur, and invariably the dogs are known to the police – or rather the owner is, and the local authorities, but we're lobbying governments to change the Dangerous Dog Act, but that's probably another issue!

H: Well I think that would be quite a controversial issue as well. We do have a question in from Darren who says “I'm looking to breed Dobermans”, again it's one of those types of breeds, it's not what he's asking about, he's just saying “do I need a license for it?”

J: No

H: To breed Dobermans?

J: No

H: Anyone can breed -

J: There are issues, if you're breeding on a frequent basis, say – I think it varies from authority to authority, but if you have say more than 4 breeding bitches who had more than 4 litters a year, then you have to have a local authority license to undertake that breeding, but if it's less than that a year then no, there's no requirements

H: And you can breed as many different you know breeds as you want?

J: No if you're actually breeding more than 4 litters –

H: Oh right I see

J: Then you need a local authority license

H: Right

J: But if you just had say one litter a year or a couple of litters a year then that's fine

H: Lovely, we've got quite a lot of questions about this kind of thing so we'll try and get through as many as we can. Remember you can submit your questions whenever you like throughout this chat. “With the recent incidents in the news about animals attacking kids, do you think certain animals, eg. Rottweilers should be allowed in homes?” That's from James. That's quite a strong –

P: Absolutely, comes back down to irresponsible owners –

H: The training

P: It's very much an ownership issue, but just reiterate any breed – poodles you should keep an eye on round children, Jack Russells, Labradors, Rottweilers, Staffords – but no one breed is more likely to bite a child than any other providing that it's been trained correctly

H: There we go I think that's a really important point to be made clear is that – because I think people are so easy to just say they've seen that breed in the paper once or twice and that's it –they go tunnel vision, say –

P: Absolutely

H: Sarah, we've got a question from Sarah “would you recommend buying a pedigree dog over a crossbreed?”

J: The thing about pedigree dogs I think is that – it all depends what you want basically, but the thing about pedigree dogs is that they've been produced as breeds with distinct characteristics, and so they've each specific characteristics which do vary from breed to breed, and if you're looking for those particular characteristics then by finding the breed that presents them and getting that breed, you're far more likely to get the breed you're interested in. If you're interested in a dog for the sake of having a dog then I don't think it makes too much difference, but if you do have specific requirements in mind for your dog and your dog owner experience moving forward then finding the pure breed that has those characteristics is obviously better

H: I just wanted to specify what the difference is obviously, because if there are any dog lovers out there or somebody who wants to get a dog, what exactly is the difference – I know it's quite clear but –

J: Ok the difference is really a pure bred dog, a pure bred litter – both parents of that litter are members of that breed and are often registered as members of that breed

H: Right ok

J: And so the Kennel Club has registers for this 206 breeds which go back to the year dot and there is a defined pet parentage verification at each of the generations. So pure bred dog, simply means that its parents are members of that same breed

H: Fine

J: Cross breds –

H: Could be anything!

J: Different breeds come together to produce the offspring

H: There we go. Lynne Masters wants to know “are there any good websites or magazines I should check for the right sort of breed that would suit our household?”

P: Well I'm bound to say www.thekennelclub.org.uk

H: Funny you should say that!

P: And www.discover-dogs.org

H: Well there we go, and what about magazine, she mentioned magazines?

P: Well we've got our Kennel Gazette!

J: There are other glossy magazines on the shelves, just go into Smith's and you'll see them, very good ones

P: Your Dog's excellent, Dogs Today, Dog World

H: So there's plenty of places for you to do your research –

P: There's plenty

H: And you would recommend I assume to go through the magazines and maybe go to shows if you really really want to be specific

J: I think it's essential that if you are thinking of getting a dog, whether it be a crossbred or a purebred it's best to talk to people who have experience so if you're going for a purebred dog, if you can and it's not necessarily the easiest thing to do, but if you can talk to some breeders, try to contact the breed club – all these breeds have at least one breed club that represents them in the UK and that breed club will have a breed club secretary who will be very experienced, and you can get to them on the web, you can email them via the web or whatever and I think there's no substitute for speaking to someone who has experience of a breed so they can answer the sort of questions you're asking and provide the right answers

H: And it's very easy to do as well which is the nice thing

J: Indeed, these days it's so easy with the –

H: Internet

J: The way we have to communicate with people

H: Exactly

J: And if you can't get in touch directly you can get in touch via the KC we will be more than happy to redirect people

H: Or like this you can get in touch right now, you can send your questions in, we've got one from Holly from Barnsley and she says “what breed is more suitable for a city professional due to lack of parks for walking?” Do you think there is one or –

P: Yes well I mean, me and Jeff were talking earlier in that just because you haven't got a garden or you work full time it doesn't necessarily mean you can't have a dog. I work full time and I've got a dog walker

H: Ok

P: And it's very reasonable, and my dog's been used to this from 7 weeks of age, that dad goes out to work for the day, but also he knows that about 12 a dog walker comes in for an hour and a half but then I walk the dog when I get it, so it is quite possible and again it's a misconception that because you haven't got a garden you can't have a dog because I've lived in flats without gardens –

H: Yes

P: but my dog was getting walked 4 times a day because I didn't have a garden! So there are ways round it – I think you've got to be careful because dogs are quite a sociable creature, but they're also very much a creature of routine and if they're used to a routine very early on, and when you are in with them you're spoiling them, you're praising them, you're taking them out, you're giving them attention then it certainly can be done, and I don't think not having a garden should be a barrier, or working full time because you can get someone in to feed your dog and take him out for a walk

H: As long as you're being fair to the pet –

P: You're being responsible yes

J: And I think the other thing is, those of us that have had dogs won't be surprised to hear that dogs do sleep an awful lot! They do spend – when they're active they're active, but then they've got their down time, and that down time can be quite long so – and I think it's becoming easier and easier now to get people to come in –

P: Absolutely

J: Let your dog out, or dog walkers –

H: Oh you see it quite often, somebody wandering down the road with 10 leads of different breeds

J: I don't think doggy crθches will be far around the corner. I'm sure somebody's thinking of that at this very minute

P: On that point, you do get some quite irresponsible sorts who will come down with 10 dogs on a lead so try and – if you are going to get a dog try and get one dog walker per dog

H: And make sure that it's somebody that you trust obviously

P: Yes and you can get those details from your local vet, through Yellow Pages even

H: Right well we are nearly halfway through our little chat here, so if you would like to submit any questions, please do, you still have time, about another 15 minutes. There is a little box at the bottom of your screen, which you can literally type your name and where you're from and your question and we will try and get through it. Right let's plough on through the questions then. Jill wants to know “I realise there's not enough time to go into the whys of breeding, but please state that there is much more to it than putting a dog and a bitch together.”

J: Oh indeed there is. Dog breeding's not to be taken lightly –

H: No

J: It really isn't and there's no substitute for experience in dog breeding, and there responsible dog – I would never breed a dog again I don't think because of the responsibilities that we're now placing on the dog breeders. If they're breeding purebred dogs they are interested in particularly producing puppies of the right characteristics for that breed, most if not all breeders are very very careful about producing dogs with good temperaments and then depending on the breed there are health issues so you have to screen the potential mums and dads, the dams and sires to make sure that you're not putting together two incompatible pairings, which will increase the chances of producing a puppy that's born with an inherited problem for example, so there's a whole raft of various things and screens that dog breeders need to take into account and then it's a balance of course, and of course there are never any guarantees because they're breeding animals, and things can go wrong, but most responsible breeders we find, will take every opportunity to try and maximise the success of that litter in terms of breed type, temperament, and the absence of inherited disease, and it's actually so important to seek out those breeders so if you're buying a puppy for example it's so important to find a responsible breeder whose been through all of this

H: So make sure, again it goes back to doing your research

J: Indeed it does

H: There we go. Right Ken from Dorking wants to know “when viewing pedigree puppies is there a general rule for what behaviour to be on the lookout for whether it's good or bad? I always thought that the dominant puppy was supposed to be the best.”

P: Well I mean I think that the puppies pick you anyway –

H: Yes

P: Any dog I've bought when you see the litter, they pretty much pick you

H: Yes. Makes himself –

P: Dominant – yes

H: Known to you

P: Absolutely. Dominant's good but not over-dominant, you shouldn't go for the over-cocky puppy and certainly not submissive, or submissive but not too timid, so if there were 10 in the litter, that all the puppies should come up to you very confidently but not over-egg is and try and beat up all the others to get to you or certainly not wait in the corner shivering, but then say you would probably have –say from that 10 you would have a shortlist of 6 and then I bet you one, you would warm to one and one would warm to you and that's your puppy, providing the breeder lets you have that one because –

H: Have that much time as well with them

P: My last dog, my breeder picked the dog for me

H: Oh really?

P: She matched me, she interviewed me and I met her dogs, and then there were 5 bitches in the litter, 3 dogs and she pretty much told me which one I was having, but it worked out perfectly

H: Which is good but do you think that works every time?

P: I think it probably does

J: It's common that, but again we go back to this responsible breeder

H: Right

J: The responsible breeder feels a responsibility for bringing the litter into the world in the first place and they're trying to find homes that are as good as or better than the home they're coming from and very often you find that you have to wait, you go on a waiting list for puppies and then it's Hobson's choice and either you wait and then you get the puppy that –

H: That's right for you

J: Well that the breeder decides on

H: Exactly

J: That's not to say you shouldn't go and look at the breed and the puppies ahead of time and also go and look at the puppy you've eventually been allocated, but it isn't always a question of you go along and you've got 12 puppies there –

H: And I want that one

J: And I want that one because it's black and white, you might have to wait and then you might have to be prepared to accept what that breeder has decided to do

H: I like the sound of that because you know if it is right and you really want it then you will wait

P: Exactly

J: That's right, and often the breeders will use that as a test for your sincerity

H: Right. If they know someone that's just turned up because the little girl's been begging “daddy daddy get me a puppy”

J: And that's what we're trying to say, you don't do things like that on the spur, you've really got to – if you want to get the right kind of experience thereafter you've really got to put the work in

P: And irresponsible breeders will sell you a dog on a whim, on a mobile number and you'll have that dog within 24 hours –

J: And to be avoided at all costs

H: Yes that's a very good tip. Now we've gone one from Liam in Ballham and he says “I have been told that pedigree dogs are more likely to inherit illness. Is this true and if so which breeds are most at risk?” Because I've heard things on this before, I mean I don't know if it's true – why is it –

J: It's basically yes, is the answer, with buts added on. If you actually look at the lists of inherited diseases in the dog and there are about 600 now, which sounds a lot but then there are 6000 in man so we're still a long way to go with the dog. If you look at those 600 then you'll find that they've been identified, every one of them's been identified as a crossbred somewhere in the world, because crossbreeds come from purebreds by definition you put two purebreds together – different purebreds – to get a crossbreed, so in that sense the crossbreed has far more documented disease in it than any single purebred. The difference is how frequently that occurs. So in the crossbred they occur less frequently than they would in a purebred and certainly some breeds of dog are prone to certain inherited diseases compared to others, and that's really because of the way purebred dogs are bred, they are much closely, more closely bred and they're more related one to the other, and many of these diseases come from what – I don't want to get too technical – but they come from what we call recessive diseases. So in a crossbred they remain recessive and dormant if you like. In a purebred because of the way they're bred you increase the likelihood of reawakening these diseases

H: Ok

J: And that's where my job comes in because increasingly now we're producing screening programmes which allow breeders to identify the dogs not to mate together, and so the very breeding practices that have in the past perhaps have posed the problem, once you have appropriate testing and pre-screening before mating, those very same breeding practices will eliminate the disease from the population, so we're faced with this really exciting prospect over the next coming years, maybe 5-10 years will have far more specific DNA technology that breeders can use, and once they do that they can get rid of a disease from a breed in a matter of a couple of generations. So yes it's more frequently seen in purebreds but they're still present in crossbreds.

H: There we go. I think again it comes down to research doesn't it and looking into the background of that particular breed. Luke wants to know in Cambridge “what is the largest breed of dog? I've always said it was the Irish Wolfhound yet last week in the pub they had a major debate with a group of dog enthusiasts claiming it was the Great Dane. Can you set the record straight as I will see these people again on Friday night?”

P: Well the tallest is the Irish Wolfhound

H: Ok

P: So he's right there

H: He's right on that side

P: The largest in the Guiness Book of Records is a Mastiff called Murphy

H: Ok

P: But the tallest is the Irish Wolfhound - I think stands at 31”

J: Yes, the other is 30”

P: And the other is 30” but the largest, the biggest is a Mastiff called Murphy

H: Well there we go, Luke you can make sure they owe you a drink on Friday

P: He can owe us one for giving him the answer!

H: You're on the ball aren't you? Right we've got one from Emily “hi there I grew up with large breeds, one was a Bernese Mountain dog and I'm looking for another dog at the moment, however my partner cannot stand dog hair. We have therefore looked into a Giant Schnauzer or an Airdale. We have two young children, which breed would you recommend looking at more closely?” So we're talking hair and around children

P: Well I mean it comes back again in the right hands they should pose no threat to young children, both of those breeds would moult but the Airdale has got a slightly wired coat so I would say it moults less. Got to be quite careful – did you say she's allergic?

H: No I think her partner can't stand it, she doesn't say it's –

P: Not allergic, because you've got to be quite careful with dogs and asthma because they can cause asthma and in some cases it can be quite severe if you're a severe asthmatic, so if there's any asthma sufferers logged in then they should always speak to the Asthma Research Council if they're thinking of obtaining a dog. Out of the Giant Schnauzer or the Airdale, I would say both bought up correctly, both fine with young children, the Airdale probably moults less but do come along to Discover Dogs because they might then like the BergaMasco, the –

J: But the dog that most people choose as a non-shedder would be the poodle, and the poodles are a classic

H: What about the Labradoodle?

J: Oh yes that's interesting, the Labradoodle was created as a potential guide dog for asthma sufferers, and the poodle was chosen because the poodle doesn't moult. It's not been proven to be – at least to my satisfaction at least – that Labradoodles don't moult and I suspect some of them will do because Labradors moult so I suspect some Labradoodles will moult

H: Ok because that's quite a fashionable thing isn't it –

J: A lot of these designer crossbreeds now are getting very very fashionable

H: How do you feel about the dogs in bags and things like that –

J: Not a lot

H: Does that – you know you see these little pictures of their little faces in a bag and you think that can't be fun?

J: I mean, yes by all means have Chihuahuas because you like Chihuahuas and they're small dogs, but don't choose a dog just because if fits in a bag or as in some cases now they call them tea cup dogs, because they actually fit into tea cups and it doesn't seem to me to be a very sound basis on which to buy a dog

H: No I mean I think what it is the ladies think it's cute to be able to wander round the shops and have their dog in their bag – what about then the clothes? You can get whole shops now, I've seen it in some of the high street shops in London you can now get clothing for animals and it – it's not fair is it?

J: Well you know I don't know whether it's fair or not. I have seen dogs dressed up and it seems to me that some of them are extremely happy. We have one of our colleagues will dress her dog up

P: Yes, a Chihuahua

J: And he's very pleased and proud of his clothing, I can tell you! He struts around and so – I don't think dogs mind

P: That's all good fun yes but I mean Paris Hilton has got quite a lot to answer for in that she's got a Chihuahua, started the trend of dogs in bags when her dog out grew her Channel bag she got rid of it and then got another one

J: Why couldn't she have got a bigger bag?

P: Very sad isn't it? Well the bag probably cost more than the dog

H: Exactly, exactly. Well we do need to get back to the fact that there's a rather exciting dog show coming up isn't there which is Discover Dogs at Earls Court 2, isn't it – do you want to tell us a little bit more about it just to finish off the chat today?

P: Yes, Earls Court 2 in London, 11th and 12th November. You can buy tickets in advance, you can buy them on the door. If you go to the website www.thekennelclub.org.uk, click on Discover Dogs you can find all the info there and just to reiterate if you've got the vaguest interest in dogs you're going to love it. If you're a prospective owner it's a real must to come down there because quite a few of the questions have been about purchase of dogs. And they can come and see all the breeds obtainable –

H: And you can take kids as well

P: Speak to the experts – kids are welcome, no hard sell

H: Just no dogs!

P: No, yes – no hard sell, they'll get all the expert advice, they may have to wait a few months to get a dog but that's absolutely right, from what Jeff said earlier – you should take your time

H: What else is actually happening at the show that's going to keep the children entertained apart from just seeing dogs – you know some kind of doggie catwalk?

P: Well there's lots happening –

J: There's loads happening isn't there?

P: We've got about 200 trade stands where you can buy leads, collars, sweatshirts for yourself. Face painting for the kids as we saw on the clip there.

H: Brilliant

P: Agility, obedience, fly ball, hear work to music, Scruft's heats for crossbreeds –

H: Ok

P: All the different breeds. Metropolitan police are there

H: So it's literally going to keep you occupied –

P: It's dog utopia we like to call it

H: Dog utopia, I love it! So you can also find out about that at all the w's.discover-dogs.org.uk. I want to thank both of you so much for coming in and joining us today, so to Dr Jeff Samson – who is our canine geneticist –and Phil Buckley from the Kennel Club, thank you so much for joining us today. I hope you can make it to the show, if you're in the area or if you're travelling down, if not then if you are looking for one of 206 different pedigree dogs, I hope you find the one for you. Thank you again, I'm Katie Pullinger and we shall see you at the next webchat, goodbye