You might love French wines, but chances are you've found them labelled in such a way that it's hard to know which one to choose, or even to remember which one you bought last time you went to the supermarket. Well it's time to stop scratching your head, as a new generation of Bordeaux wines prepares to take the mystery out of the buying experience for UK wine lovers.

Guy Henri Azam is head winemaker at the legendary Baron Philippe de Rothschild wines. He and fellow expert Philip Goodband are hosting an exclusive web chat that will explain how a range of Bordeaux wines developed exclusively for the modern consumer aims to address our particular concerns and tastes.

Until now, most Bordeaux wine labels have typically featured a picture of a chateau, and no indication of grape variety. Enchanté wines buck the trend. The range combines crystal clear, stylish labelling with wines that belong very much in the Bordeaux tradition, while offering UK consumers crisper, fruitier and ultimately more accessible flavours: The best of Bordeaux with a modern twist.

Guy and Philip are waiting to answer all your questions about these refreshing developments in the world of wine, so log on to the chat for the full story.

For more information visit http://www.sainsburys.com/groceries/

H: Murray Norton, host
G: Guy Henri Azam, head winemaker, Baron Philippe de Rothschild wines
P: Philip Goodband, wine expert

H: Hello and welcome to the Food and Drink Show, I'm Murray Norton. Now chances are you already love French wines, but like many of us you've probably found it labelled in such a way that it's hard to know what to choose, and what to remember for the next time you go to buy it. Well thank heavens the confusion is over, with a new generation of Bordeaux wines which will take the mystery out of the buying experience for us UK wine lovers. I'm delighted to welcome head winemaker at the legendary Philippe - Baron Philippe de Rothschild even, and that's Guy Henri Azam wines along with Guy's fellow wine expert Philip Goodband, who's alongside – very nice to have you gentlemen, thank you very much for being here

P: Great, great to be here

H: Well the guys are going to be taking us through a new range of Bordeaux wines called Enchante today, and so they're right in front of us here, we're going to be sampling some a little later on, so please, please don't go anywhere. You're going to find out what these taste like through these taste buds, and a few experts as well. Philip can I just start by saying that wine buying should be easy, as we can see in front of us, white, rose, red – it's quite simple, it's not too complicated, but in the UK it seems to be a very confusing experience. Why is that?

P: Yes well I suppose really in this country we've been the shop window of the world, and that has good points and bad points. On the one hand there's lots and lots of choice, on the other it makes that choice very difficult because they're coming from all over the world, some are labelled in one way, some are labelled in another, and very often you have no idea what each bottle tastes like

H: So it's almost too much choice

P: I think we're spoilt for choice really and –

H: That's a great thing and its people like you who are giving us that choice as well Guy, if I may say so. Are you surprised by how many different wines we have in the UK?

G: Oh yes I was very surprised, because in UK you have a very huge range of wine of everywhere in the world, and it's – I understand that it's very difficult to choose very easily, in UK

H: Ok well we have 3 great wines in front of us and we will be talking about those wines in a little bit more details.  Now in terms of the choice, we have this choice, this massive range of wines, and I can understand the difficulty is going to be from there, but when you break down the different types of wines as well, we have very little to go on when we walk into, say a supermarket or a wine shop because we just see the wine don't we and that's it, and we've got to get our information from that

P: Yes it's a wall of wine, and it really is very intimidating, and of course part of that is due to the fact that in France for example the labelling is all about place rather than in the new world which is all about grape variety

H: Right

P: So perhaps when we've been drinking a bottle of wine from Australia or South Africa or California, we get to know the grape variety and what it tastes like. Now that – those clues are not on French labels generally speaking, because it's all about geography, it's all about places, places like Bordeaux, Burgundy, the Rhone Valley and so on, so how do we know what they taste like?

H: Yes

P: And so often French wines don't have back labels which give us this information, and they're in French. 

H: Now –

G: Sorry, and to speak about Bordeaux wines, don't forget we have 57 appellations, it's more – it's very difficult to understand these –

H: So it makes it very, very complicated when you've got 57 appellations in one region alone. Can you very simply - can you just simplify appellations for everybody because in terms of – there's a lot of confusion about appellations – is that the grading?

P: The appellation controlle system is the top level of the grading within France. So for example at the bottom level you have table wine, or vin de table. The next level up is Country wine or vin de pays, and then the top level is appellation controlle, or controlled appellation, which is the place it comes from

G: Yes it's a denomination of Terroir of a specific Terroir, for example in Bordeaux, we have 4 or 5 big Terroirs, for example Saint Emilion, Medoc, Entre Deux Mers, and Cotes, but in each Terroirs, there is a lot of mini, mini Terroirs

H: You can see why we get confused can't you?

P: There we are. There you have it in one

H: Explains it exactly for us. When we look at a bottle of Bordeaux, which we 're talking about here, thankfully, when we look at what we would expect from a bottle of Bordeaux when we look at the label, normally there's that – am I right in thinking that more or less all of them would have a picture of a chateau on them?

P: Yes I think I'm right in saying there are 12,000 châteaux in Bordeaux, so often you will find a label which has, maybe it's a white label with a picture of a chateau and some vines, and the chateau name. And people take a bottle home with them and maybe they like it, maybe they don't, but if they do, and they then go back and try and find it again, they can't because they all look so similar. So what we've tried to do with the Enchante range is to change that whole philosophy and bring information to people to help them to choose their wine

H: Now we should say it's more than just changing a label isn't it?

P: It is indeed

H: This is a whole new generation of style, would that be right in saying?

P: It is

G: It's also a new vision of Bordeaux in fact, Enchante is a new vision of Bordeaux, a new vision for example the sourcing, for the grapes, for the wine making, for different things, it's a new generation and adaptation of the know-how of Bordeaux in fact

H: Ok so new generation for a new generation of Bordeaux drinkers, it would be fair to say

P: Exactly right

H: Ok. I can't wait, I've got to try some of this, it's got to be done. I'm going to pour a little –

P: You're going to go with the white first?

H: Yes white's first, I think we'll do some of that, and then I'll past that over for you to do much the same. Thank you. So white's going in there. Actually there's a question that – whilst you're pouring that there, I wonder if you could answer this for us – somebody says they love a cold glass of beer and they freeze the glass, they chill the glass down so they can have really cold beers.  Is it safe to do the same with wines – will that bring out the taste?

P: Yes but if you're doing that you really need to do it with bottles that haven't been in the fridge because that's going to chill the wine. The chilled glass is going to chill the wine anyway, and it looks great, it's actually great theatre

H: Yes

P: But it certainly won't do the wine any harm

H: Ok. When we're trying wines, you two guys are the real experts here, I feel a bit in awe of what I should be expected to do when I try a wine. How do you get the flavour out of wine? I've seen all sorts of theatrical things done, so let's see how you guys do it, if you wouldn't mind explaining how you taste your wine

G: Oh yes. First of all you have to just, to look the wine colour and secondly just to swell the wine to extract the maximum of flavour of aromas

H: It's got a great - you'd say nose, I'd say smell

P: Absolutely and by swirling it round you're releasing all those lovely aromas

G: Oh yes. And for example we discover very, very easily aromas of fresh fruit, very interesting of grapefruit, very interesting aroma

H: Yes very citrus

P: Citrus

G: Citrus

P: Grapefruit, it's quite aromatic so it's a really inviting smell as you put it

H: Yes it is in fact I'm sounding like an expert now, I'm getting a little bit of pineapple at the start and then it goes into grapefruit

P: That's right, well that's because this particular wine has two grape varieties in it

H: Ok

P: It's a Sauvignon Blanc and a Semillon.  These are two classic varieties from Bordeaux and each of them adds something to the wine, there's an aroma –

H: So there's a bit of citrus from the Sauvignon

P: From the Sauvignon, and a little bit of pineapple more ripe, texture and body

G: The texture, the silky texture for the wine is –

P: Is coming through from the Semillon

G: Is coming from the Semillon yes

H: I like that, I like that. I'm going to taste it in just a second. Question here from Gary, we'll take these questions as they come along here. Incidentally if you've got a question for us don't forget we are live, there's a little box just at the bottom of the screen that you're watching at the moment, just put your question there, it comes up here, we'll answer your question. Gary's just sent us one in "it seems to me that women tend to drink more white wine, whilst men tend to drink red wine." And I see you nodding so you're obviously in agreement with that. "If that is the case and if so is there a different between the male and female taste buds?"

P: There's actually no difference between the male and female taste buds, but definitely females have a finer sense of taste than males and it's a fact that most of the buyers in supermarkets today are women

H: Ah

P: So it's very interesting. When I'm tasting with women, they will pick up things that they don't, and I will pick up things that they don't, but generally speaking they have a finer set of taste buds than men

H: They have fine taste, that's why they choose us

P: Absolutely

H: And wine

G: And very often the new wine drinkers start by white wine. Why? Because in fact it's because of colour, it's – we have a very good transparency and it's not the same thing for the red, because in the red it's more difficult to examine and it's easier to drink white wine and very, very often women starts by white wine

H: Ok, so Gary your question is absolutely right, that's exactly what they do. We have swirled, we have sniffed

P: Yes

H: I took a little sneaky taste earlier

P: And now it's about the taste, because that's really what it's all about

H: Right. Is there a special way – I mean do you – you don't really need to tell anyone how to sip or drink, but in getting the wine out

P: Yes. When we're tasting, for example in our tasting room you'll hear – I'm drawing air in across the pallet and that's releasing all those flavours around the pallet and of course the pallet is at the back of the nose as well

H: Right

P: So you're getting all those flavours going at the back of the nose and picking them up on your taste buds and of course what I would suggest for people at home is to keep the wine in the mouth just a little bit longer than you would normally and you can then taste everything that's in there

H: well once you've swallowed the wine the taste is still right around the mouth isn't it?

P: Absolutely, the taste stays with you on the pallet, and actually that's a good rule of thumb. The longer the wine stays with you on the pallet the better the wine is

H: Is it true the question, you should eat fish and chicken with white wine? Is that – that's always been the thing that people have always said, but I know that's changed a great deal now

P: Yes. I mean more – these days with modern wine making and particularly with this style of wine making you can actually drink most wines with most foods

H: Right

P: So please don't get hung up about whether you should have chicken or fish with this white wine, or this with that

H: Correct me if I'm wrong but for my taste, this and I'm thinking green Thai curry – something like that with a –

P: Yes

H: Not too overpowering

P: Not too hot and spicy

H: The lemongrass would go with that

P: The lemongrass would go brilliantly with it and of course that's where the Sauvignon comes in very handy with food.

H: Ok

P: But something like a Caesar salad or a chicken with sauce or your mild green Thai curry, that sort of thing, brilliant

H: Fantastic. This taste, I have to say we didn't comment on the taste, tastes absolutely gorgeous. It's a beautiful combination. It's very light, very crisp

P: Well you notice that on the label for example you see the grape varieties – those Sauvignon Semillon we've been talking about, and those are very important because they give you the clue as to how it's going to taste

H: can you take us through the label on this, because I think it's quite important that we – you said the label is different

P: Yes

H: Than you would normally expect, and it's important that we go through that now

G: Yes. Everything is indicated on the label and

H: Ok

G: The grape varieties, the grape variety –

H: Ok so we know which one it is

G: Sauvignon and Semillon

H: Yes

G: And the main qualities of these wine, wine is zesty, very fresh with a lot of fruitiness and everything is right –

P: And actually I think I'm right in saying that is the first time that there's been a product – a description, the grape varieties, the appellation, the brand and of course the Baron Philippe de Rothschild name, all on the front label

H: It's brilliant, but why has it taken them so long, it almost seems obvious doesn't it?

P: It does but –

H: The best ideas are always the simple ones

P: Absolutely. It's very simple

H: There's a rose in the centre which I'm really – I like rose wines and they've become so fashionable –

P: Yes

H: Everywhere you go, no matter which restaurant you've been into, no matter which picnic you've ever been on this summer, what summer we had, you always see rose wines out there

P: Yes. Well Roses have become popular through Californian rose which of course is sweet but what it's done is it's kind of given permission to people at last to drink rose because for many years it was just not the right thing to do and so winemakers like ourselves have been producing new wines, and this is a particularly delicious

H: I'll let you pour

P: Soft yet not sweet rose wine. The colour is delightful and it may interest people to know exactly how rose is made

G: Yes and this rose is made with grape variety Merlot first of all, and a little of Cabernet Sauvignon, and – but essentially it's Merlot. Why it's Merlot? Because the Merlot means very often, especially in Bordeaux area, a lot of softness and a lot of rumness and a very spicy flavour and very typical of Merlot in this area, in Bordeaux area

H: Very soft Merlot. I've got to ask what is the obvious question but has to be said because people still have a great belief that rose is made of a mixture of red and white wine

P: Yes

H: Put together. But no?

G: No, no, absolutely no – to make a good rose we have to, it is necessary to have red grapes

H: Yes

G: And we have to, it is necessary to have a fermentation with the skin contact, and we extract the juice and after for example 10 hours of skin contact, and after, we – you make a normal fermentation with yeast –

P: So it's about 10 hours of skin contact

G: Yes

P: To give you this lovely colour, and if you leave it –

G: To obtain the colour –

H: If you left it longer it would be dark red

P: You'd end up with red wine, because the colour is in the skins of the grapes

H: This is interesting because just as a reverse of all of that I've seen red grapes being used to make white wine because they just extract the juice –

P: If you open a red grape the flesh is going to be colourless, so you need the skins to make rose and red wine

H: So it's a few hours of leaving the skins in contact with extracted juice

P: But what that does too, is without the fermentation having taken place you've got no alcohol and that maceration allows a lot of these aromas and flavours to be absorbed in to the juice

H: What I'm surprised about this wine and you said it's soft and it's round, and it really is, which makes it great because it's chilled for the summer, but it's not just a summer wine, and I've got a question down here incidentally from Anita, Tom's question just got answered about how we make rose, but Anita's question "is rose just a summer wine or could it be drunk all year round?" so here we go, that perfectly answers this doesn't it?

P: Absolutely and what we're finding now is with the drier styles and the softer styles you can drink them with almost any kind of food. This will go brilliantly with fish, with meat, with chicken, with almost anything you can think of and at any time of year, and of course you don't have to chill it until it's frozen, and actually it's rather important that you don't, because you'll lose some of those wonderful flavours, and wines like this which have a little bit more body, they are great to have as wines on a glass on their own, in front of the fire, in winter. So all year round wine, definitely

G: Yes and a lot of countries are really interested by rose, it's a new fashion. It's not only a new fashion it's a new taste for the consumer, the rose, and –

P: so you're seeing it everywhere else?

G: And for me rose will represent the future for a lot of wines

H: There we go. Big prediction if ever there was one! And from the man who should know.  Interesting actually how you make rose, when you're making wines, do you include the pips? That question just come in from Sean. What happens to the pips in wine?

P: Yes, the grapes are broken open and then this maceration takes place with the juice, and of course the pips are in there

H: Right

P: But the key thing is not to crush those grapes too hard so you get the bitter tannins, you've got to soft press

H: Ok

P: so that you don't get any bitter oils from the seeds, from the pips

G: And to control the temperature of fermentation too

H: It's all done –

G: Very low temperature to obtain the maximum of fresh aromas. For example in this rose we have a lot of fresh aromas like redcurrants or –

P: And strawberries

G: Strawberries

P: These kinds of things

H: I'm already finding it difficult to choose which one of these wines I like best. I'm probably going to have to get both, that's for certain.  But I'm going to move on to the red because we have a red wine here as well. Please do help yourself to pour. This is a Merlot

G: Yes

H: So this again is made with the same grape –

G: Exactly the same –

H: As the rose

G: The same grapes as rose, but in Merlot we have around 75% of Merlot and 15% of Cabernet Franc and the rest Cabernet Sauvignon and each grape variety brings something in the blend

H: So – different grapes bringing different things out of the wine

P: So there you can see the difference, if you leave the grape skins, this is what you get

H: A totally different wine

P: Very deep

G: Very deep colour

P: Powerful colour, rich colour which indicates ripeness

G: Yes

P: Ripeness of the grapes, and actually that's something that we've been very very, Guy Henri and Baron Philippe de Rothschild, this is one of the big areas of change, getting those grapes ripe with growers that they have direct contact with

G: Yes because in fact we have a new policy in Bordeaux, we have for the contracts and for the wine growers, we have contracted a lot of wine growers to obtain perfect – the perfect ripeness of the grapes

P: So ripe smells, ripe tastes

H: Very ripe smells and that – is there – do you use any sort of oaking with this wine at all?

P: Absolutely none

H: None whatsoever?

P: Absolutely none

G: No

P: There again –

H: It's wonderful

P: It's a change from more traditional Bordeaux

H: It's modern

P: it's very modern and so the taste has lots of richness, lots of fruit, and well – taste it and you'll see just how smooth it is

H: It looks delicious, there we go. 

G: You smell dark plum and blackcurrant and –

H: Blackcurrant, there's almost a chocolaty hint in there as well

P: There's a chocolaty hint

H: Wow, how can you say there's chocolate in wine but you can, you've got to try this wine, it just really does taste –

P: and you know traditionally Bordeaux has been about that 5% of top chateaux that you had to lay down to wait for them to be ready to drink

H: Well these were very expensive wines too,

P: Very expensive, whereas what we've done here is to – we actually keep the wine until it is ready for sale, so it's ready for sale and ready to drink, and that's a big change from traditional Bordeaux

H: So once again, because people are interested in grape varieties and I know you put them on there, there are 3 grape varieties, is that right?

P: Yes

H: We have Cabernet –

G: We have Merlot

H: Cabernet, Merlot of course mostly

P: the first grape variety on the label, of any label, is always the dominant grape variety

G: Exactly

H: So this is mostly Merlot

P: Yes

G: Mostly Merlot

H: With a small percentage of –

P: Cabernet Sauvignon and Cabernet Franc which are two varieties of Cabernet

G: Cabernet Sauvignon brings the structure and the body and the Cabernet Franc, the freshness and the minerality in a red wine, the good tannins

H: And with this wine, what would you suggest you eat with this? We've already said you can eat whatever you want to, but I see you've got a cheese board in front – this would work with a cheese board wouldn't it?

P: This would go very well with those cheeses. It'll go with of course any kind of meat dish, but it's equally I think you'll agree, able to be drunk as a glass on its own. So you're getting –

H: Me, log fire, December, this wine

P: It's great isn't it?

H: It's wrapped up

G: Very easy to drink, this wine, very easy

P: And that really is the secret. We've moved from those hard, astringent, you know tannins, very difficult, drying, to wine which is easy, fruity, much more the style of today's modern wine

G: And a lot of rumness, the rumness of –

H: You're talking about something here that may well answer this question. Howard's sent a question, Howard thank you for this. He said "I've been very impressed by New World wines"

P: Yes

H: "And I've tended to drift away from the old world wines, the French world wines. If I'm to be tempted back into the world of French wines, what would you suggest I go back to?"

P: well that's an obvious one

H: Yes of course

P: Here we have them.  I would really –

H: This is the re-invention of the wheel almost isn't it?

P: It is, where what we're doing here is creating the next generation of Bordeaux wines

G: It's the next generation but it's not a new world wine

H: No

G: Naturally we have exactly the tradition of Bordeaux wines, and but we – with a new approach of the wine making and a new approach of the – to cultivate the grapes, and to control everything in the vineyard, because the main thing to obtain a very good wine, is first of all to have very nice grapes, and very – grapes with a good ripeness, and without any disease, and it's not easy job to obtain this

H: Sure, sure. You're setting yourself tough targets here. But it's an exciting time for you

P: Oh yes very much.  It's a brilliant thing to be involved with, you can imagine doing something completely revolutionary and new, and creating a range which actually is the first of its kind from Bordeaux

H: That's a great range.  Howard, we're running out of time but Howard has sent a second question in to this – having been turned on to the French wines, which he obviously has, he wants to go to France to a vineyard.  If he's to do so, how would you – where would you recommend he goes and how much do you think he would learn from the experience of actually getting out there into a vineyard in France?

G: Of course Bordeaux because don't forget Bordeaux – it's

H: Easily reached

P: Easily reached, yes there are lots of cheap flights into Bordeaux by the various airlines. And the probably the best place to start would be the Bordeaux wine office,

G: Yes

P: and they would help for example to find a particular chateau, or just go there and drive around, because you'll find vineyards everywhere

H: And you'll see labels, you'll go "I recognise that"

P: That's right, and it's like driving through a wine list, so you can drive along the Medoc region and see Margaux, Saint Estephe, Pauillac, Saint Julien

H: Right

P: And all these names that we know from wine lists

H: and one cheeky question for you, how do you know – and this is – this has come from someone I know who actually wants to put some wines down – how do you know what's been a good vintage to invest for the future? Everyone wants to know this question

P: Everybody wants the shortcut. I would give the short answer which is "what sort of summer has it been?" has it been a long, warm, sunny summer or has it been rather cool and wet like this year. I suspect this year is not going to be a wine year for investment

H: Ok. So a good, warm summer, with a good, warm autumn too?

P: Absolutely to get those grapes ripe

H: That's really important

G: Yes, the ripeness of the grapes, it's essential to obtain a very good wine

H: Of the 3 wines we've got in front of us today, the Enchante range, where can people find these because we've talked about them, we've tasted them, we've said how great they are, but for people to go out and buy them now, they can get them in various places

P: Yes you can find them in Sainsburys and Threshers and a number of other leading wine merchants around the country

H: Fine. It's all there. Thank you so much for your expertise and your comments, and indeed for allowing me to taste these wines, it's been great fun, and we hope to see you again, thank you very much

P: It's been great for us too, thank you very much

G: Thank you

H: Thank you very much, and thank you very much indeed for joining us. Enjoy your wines and join us again on the Food and Drink Show. Bye bye

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