When you ask your little ones what they'd like for dinner, it's usually a resounding chorus of chicken nuggets and chips! Most of us would fall off our chair if our kids asked for anything that was good for them. Instead mums are often forced to resort to 'stealth tactics' to get our kids to eat good food and therefore get the nutrients they need.

Research by Hovis Best of Both shows that crucial fibrous foods such as vegetables, brown or wholemeal bread and fruit are among the top things that mums struggle to get their kids eating – the very foods that help make up part of a balanced diet for growing bodies. Some of us have smuggled vegetables into foods they will eat, while others will play fun games at the dinner table or bribe them with pudding just to finish their plate. As a result, breakfast time, preparing lunchboxes and actually getting the kids of the door in the morning prove the most stressful times of day for mums.

The study shows many of us are so fed up with the constant dinner table battles that we've given up trying to feed our kids food they don't like altogether. Whilst letting them pick and choose what they eat might lead to a quieter life, this often means foods like vegetables and brown bread are left to one side, in favour of unhealthy and nutritionally poor food.

Whether you're at your wits end, or just after some tips on giving your family the best of both worlds at mealtimes, help is at hand! Chief Executive of The Parent Coaching Academy, Lorraine Thomas will be joining us in the studio to talk about giving your family a healthy diet without the fuss...

For more information visit www.hovisbakery.co.uk

H: Host, Lis Speight
L: Lorraine Thomas, Chief Executive, The Parent Coaching Academy

H: Hello and welcome to the Parenting Show, I'm Lis Speight. Now then when you ask your little ones what they'd like for dinner, it's usually a resounding chorus of chicken nuggets and chips! And we all know how hard it is using those 'stealth tactics' like smuggling vegetables into the meals so our kids can get the vital nutrients they need. Whether you're at your wits end or you're just after some tips for giving your family the best of both words at meal times, help is at hand because today I'm joined by the Chief Executive of The Parent Coaching Academy, Lorraine Thomas to talk about giving your family a healthy diet without the fuss. Lorraine welcome to the Show

L: Hello

H: It's really nice to see you today. Now of course we are live today so if you want to get your questions to Lorraine or if you have any comments at all then please use the box on your screen and we'll try to answer as many points as we can. But Lorraine mealtimes can be a bit of a battle time for parents – anyone who's got kids will know that. Why is it such a problem trying to get kids to eat healthily?

L: Do you know it's such a battleground Lis and Hovis Best of Both have run a survey which really shows what a problem it is in so many houses across the country. Do you know especially at breakfast time I think with mums trying to get children up and get breakfast down them and you know find some matching socks and get them out of the house –

H: It's always quite stressful isn't it?

L: Especially – and the time is so short isn't it?

H: Yes

L: And do you know what happens when you become a mum is it is the most important job you do in your life isn't it? It's really rewarding, it's the most important job you ever have to do in your life

H: And you want your kids to eat well don't you?

L: Absolutely and you want to be the perfect mum don't you, and food becomes the real focus for that you and think oh I know what I want them to eat, I know how important it is for them to have a healthy, balanced diet, so if I can do this you know I'm doing really well as a mum. But you know mums take the bar so high, you know and make it easy for themselves to fail, so they, you know they're really under a lot of pressure. So they want to get these you know these healthy, balanced diet down the children and the children you know have great willpower as we know –

H: They've got other ideas haven't they?

L: Completely different ideas you know, it's a battle of the wills isn't it?

H: Yes

L: And so you know it is one of those most stressful times for mum, and they do, you know mums do become really creative when it comes to getting the children to eat, you know the vegetables and the wholemeal bread and the bits and pieces that the children say no to. So the survey showed which is really interesting I think, all the kinds of different tactics that mums use. And it just shows how creative doesn't it – with everything that mums have got to do –

H: Yes exactly and we've got that to do as well and we're doing it well –

L: And they're even thinking outside the square, you know because they're really committed, they really do want the children to eat it and they know it's important. So they do things like you know hide vegetables you know with other things that the children like eating, you know and I heard from, you know one dad who had actually put a Brussels sprout inside a roast potato

H: Oh my goodness, that's very creative isn't it?

L: It's very committed isn't it? You see they really want to do it. And you know actually hiding food that children aren't so keen on in you know sauces or –

H: Yes

L: Even changing the colour of mashed potato using food colouring

H: Oh right, yes

L: And lots of mums actually are using a tactic which is quite interesting and seems to be really successful in lots of parts of the country, and that's you know actually buying food that is healthier than it looks. So –

H: Right

L: It sort of ticks the children box, so you know the Hovis Best of Both for example, you know it's white and children you know, the survey –

H: And it hasn't got any bits in it has it? Because my daughter hates bread with bits in, but it's still got all the fibre in hasn't it?

L: Yes. It looks great, you know it's white, it's what the children want, tick the box, I'll have that mum and you know it's got all the – it's got the calcium you know, it's a really good source of calcium and the fibre. And you know so the children eat it and mum is happy. And you know there are lots of different foods, you know that's bread and that obviously works really well for lots of mums, but now I think there are lots of different foods available too like that where the children are saying yes I like that –

H: Like spaghetti bolognaise – it's easy to get your vegetables in there isn't it? Blitz them all down and shove them in, and you can get all sorts of stuff in there can't you?

L: Yes absolutely. So that's something that mums are doing. But they do find it really stressful and I think you know lots of mums say to me, I run lots of workshops for mums and mealtimes is always the big hotspot that comes up, especially breakfast you know and the evening, the arsenic hours some of the mums I work with call –

H: The arsenic hours!

L: Because I think you know, it's just time is so precious and so short now isn't it?

H: Yes

L: There seems to be so many things to do and so little time to do it

H: Well particularly if you've got more than one child and they're going to Brownies and ballet and you've got to get food down them and get them out the house and bath time and la la la, and particularly if you've got more than one child and they've all got different demands – I mean how do you cope with that if one likes this and one doesn't and how do you cope with that if you've got kids with different demands? Do you just lay down the law and say this is what we're having?

L: Yes I – do you know I think as a mum, you know what do you want to do, you know what do I want to achieve and how am I going to achieve it and actually you know think with the end game, you know when you start off, because when you start creating you know different choices for different children you know at the meal time, then the message you send them well that's great, you know we'll all have different things

H: Yes

L: So perhaps that's something you feel you want to do but it's worth thinking about –

H: The long term

L: A month or a year down the track and what that means. And the same way I think you know, some mums find that when they – you know bribery

H: Right

L: You can have the pudding if you eat the vegetables

H: Yes

L: And it works in the short time, the short term but actually you know in the longer term it doesn't serve the purpose for them and the children can become more and more demanding. I think with things like that, I think children are great and they like to be involved and do you know I think if you can make mealtimes a really positive time for them

H: Right

L: You know and involve them in the choices a little bit. Some of the mums that I work with, you know they come up with a great thing actually a couple of weeks ago and you know I heard from them and they said it's really transformed our mornings –

H: Oh right

L: So I'll share that. And they – what they decided to do was to set their alarm ten or 15 minutes earlier in the morning, you know to start with they said we don't really want to do that because we love our sleep, but you know they're so frantic in the morning, they've got to do boom, boom, boom – like you said, we'll set it ten / 15 minutes earlier in the morning and have a more leisurely approach to breakfast, and they found that really transformed, you know their early mornings

H: So they could sit down as a family and have a juice or your fruit or whatever

L: Yes

H: And make it more of a mealtime than a rush-through sort of thing

L: Yes because if you're stressed about it as a mum then children pick up don't they?

H: They do don't they?

L: You know hold up a mirror to you, everything that you sort of say and do. If you're tense about what they're eating or not eating, or you're stressed about getting them out then they pick up on that and it makes it more challenging for you as a mum doesn't it? So yes a more leisurely approach. And what they said interestingly enough is it made – it gave them an opportunity to give their children a much better breakfast

H: Yes

L: So they gave them a couple of slices of toast, you know their calcium and their fibre, and they gave them a choice about what to eat on their toast. So again I think that's a really good strategy for children

H: Yes. In the winter I think it might be a bit tough, getting up really, really early when it's dark but it's worth a go isn't it?

L: Do you know they're on this journey aren't they from dependence to independence, so if you – you know you've got three choices for their breakfast and they're actually making the decision they feel they're in the driving seat, they're much more likely to be enthusiastic. And I think as a mum do you know it's about being a great role model isn't it? Because I – you know time is precious, I've got three children Lis so I know just how many demands there are on your time

H: Never enough hours in the day

L: Never enough time and always too much to do. But I think you know for mums it can be quite tempting you know to set the children off and then you know eat their toast as they go round and you know feed the dishwasher or empty the washing machine –

H: Yes. So sit down with your kids

L: Yes even if it's for a short amount of time, you know try and resist the temptation – the housework will be there but you know the children won't be for long, so –

H: Yes that's true

L: So sit down with them and spend that time talking. And do you know it sends a really powerful message to children doesn't it, that mealtimes are valuable rather than something you fit in between all the other logistics

H: Yes that's a really good point actually. That's really good. Now we are live, sorry to interrupt you there. Now we are live, so if you want to get your questions in or any points or any tips for other parents then do send them into us, all you have to do is to type it in the box that's on the screen, pop your name in there as well, press submit and it'll come through to us and we'll try to get through as many as we can. We've had quite a few questions in already actually so let's move on to some of those. We've had one in from Julia and she says "I find the summer holidays a nightmare as the kids are always raiding the fridge when my back is turned, and then they aren't hungry at mealtimes." Lock on the fridge? What do you do about that Lorraine?

L: That's a really interesting one isn't it? Because you know often mums think – oh the summer holidays, that's going to be nice and relaxing, and you know for lots of different reasons, and that's a good one isn't it?

H: Yes

L: A mum finding it more stressful. You know I think, do you know if you have the chance to sit down with the children and you know draw up some house rules around food and things

H: Yes

L: You know so going into the fridge is a tricky one isn't it?

H: Yes

L: But you know if you don't want them to eat the snacks, don't put them there in the first place

H: That's a good point. Do you know a friend of mine said to me the other day, she said you are the guardian of what comes into your house. And that is so true. If you buy sweet, sticky things – breakfast cereals then they're going to eat them aren't they? If you never buy them then they can't have them can they?

L: It's really difficult to say no, isn't it to children? If they come home after, if they come home in the summer holidays and they say mum I'm really hungry, I've been working really hard or I've been playing football or netball or something, and it's really hard to say no to your children isn't it? And do you know mums just don't want to say no but sometimes it's really kind to say no isn't it?

H: Yes

L: Because actually you're thinking oh I'll give them that treat in the short term, but in the longer term you know it's not so good for them or for you. So absolutely, do you know if you want them to eat healthy snacks buy healthy snacks and if you don't want them to –

H: But healthy doesn't have to mean horrible does it?

L: Healthy is great

H: There's these amazing yogurt and fruit things around these days aren't there?

L: Absolutely and you know take them – I think the more you involve them in the, you know the shopping, the eating and the preparation – children – do you know the more they get into it. And do you know take them to the supermarket, and you know choose some of those really healthy snacks and put them in a snack jar or a container in the fridge, so that you know limit the number of snacks that they're having, you know a couple a day. So when they get to mealtimes they're really hungry. Because if children are hungry they will eat

H: Yes exactly

L: They will always eat and they, you know they –

H: Can't be so fussy if they're starving can they?

L: Absolutely. So I think yes absolutely, if you put in there what you want the children to eat

H: Yes. Ok good tips there. Right we've had a – talk about getting your kids involved actually, we've had a comment here from Charlotte, she says "I found getting my kids involved with growing some vegetables in the garden to help them understand what food is." That' quite trendy at the moment, growing your own veg isn't it? Do you think everyone should have a go at that?

L: Oh I think you know, not everybody can do that can they?

H: No

L: But if you can do it, or do you know there are allotments –

H: That's true

L: And I know somebody who had no garden but they actually had a little, you know sort of a box at the front of their house where they grew some herbs and bits and pieces, and I think it's you know really fascinating isn't it for children because sometimes they think that carrots come from you know the supermarket

H: Exactly. They come from a plastic bag

L: You know be involved in the process, you know is fascinating. I think you know when it comes to sort of making their sandwiches for you know lunchtime – because that's another stressful time for us as well

H: Yes

L: You know what's going to go in, what are they going to eat, and you want to make sure they're going to eat it and not send it all back

H: "I don't like that"

L: When, you know if you've got things you've grown yourself where they've chosen

H: Yes

L: And you've got a choice of fillings and you know what goes on and as a mum you're really happy you know they're all healthy. And if they put something into their own sandwich or make a decision about that, they're much more likely to eat it and say oh that was fantastic mum, I'll have that again tomorrow

H: So maybe make them the night before as well

L: Yes

H: Because that's another thing in the morning isn't it?

L: Yes

H: To be stressing about. But we've had a question in from Selina actually, she says "why oh why does the apple and the banana always come home bruised and battered in the lunch box? What can I do to get them eating more fruit?" So you stick them in the lunch box – how do you make them actually eat it?

L: Yes it's interesting isn't it? I think do you know there's such an array now, there's a whole range of fruits and you know fantastic things that children can eat, and I think you know that's a – you know a good choice thing for children

H: Yes yes – so give them something different every week or every day or –

L: Yes and you know just – so they can actually choose what they put into their lunchbox with the fruit. And you can have that selection at home can't you? But they're just much more likely – or to give them a little array, you know in a plastic pot

H: A few grapes and –

L: To make it colourful and –

H: Pineapple – because you can get – buy all these things chopped up these days

L: Yes

H: Although it's a bit more expensive

L: Yes

H: You've just got to use a bit more imagination haven't you I suppose?

L: Yes. And just involve them in the preparation too, you know because they love – how many bits shall I cut it into or what colours shall we put together. So – you know – and it does take time and effort, and you know mums you know have lots to think about don't they?

H: Yes

L: But actually if you get the habit – your children into these good habits early on, they'll have them for a lifetime, and not just you know when they have their own children. I think you know I grew up in the time Lis where you got treats if you ate your vegetables

H: Well that's it

L: It's quite a different philosophy. Whereas now we know it's really important, you know, for children to have, you know all the nutrients, and that healthy children will live longer and be happier and you know the reasons for the diet, which is why mums feel under a lot of pressure to do it don't they?

H: Because we know a lot more about it these days don't we?

L: Yes

H: I mean we've all heard of 5 a day, cut our salt down, cut our fat down – there is extra pressure, but the kid pick up on that too, I mean kids aren't daft, they know what's good for them and what isn't these days

L: Yes. Absolutely. And do you know actually in schools now because there's such a lot of focus on the, you know hovisbakery.co.uk there's some information resources about you know what children –

H: There is – some quite good things for schools on there aren't there?

L: And actually they know a lot more sometimes

H: Yes

L: Than mums –

H: The curriculum these days covers a lot doesn't it about healthy eating –

L: And they're really involved today, you know they really – they want to do it because they want to be healthy and you know they're getting that message at school

H: Yes

L: And do you know so it's not as difficult as it was, you know, years ago when it was just you on a single –

H: Me banging away. Yes. At least now they're on side a lot of the time aren't they?

L: Absolutely

H: They are

L: And actually children are fantastically creative too aren't they, so I know lots of mums, you know who actually struggled with getting their children to eat, and so they've sat down and had a family meeting. They've said ok so these are the reasons it would be really great to eat this, that and the other –

H: So talk to your kids and hopefully it will get them to

L: Yes and get them to cook a meal for you

H: Yes

L: Do you know because children love to, you know, create pizzas with their own toppings or you know to make sandwiches for you as a mum and to come u p with lots of ideas and you know one of the great ways to get them to eat their vegetables which children love because they're fantastic colours, you know – soup is so easy to make now

H: Yes

L: And get them to experiment with different ways, you know there are lots of children who won't eat boiled carrots but if you grate it and put some raisins in

H: Oh yes that sounds exciting. Or carrot cake even

L: Carrot cake yes! Absolutely

H: We've had a – move on to some more of your questions actually. Shelley sent a question in, she says "my three year old is so difficult when it comes to food, yet my five year old eats anything. Will the three year old grow out of it do you think?" Are they born fussy eaters do you think or – what's the secret?

L: Do you know, it's hard isn't it because you know, if you've got two children who have got quite a different attitude to food

H: Yes

L: Or even you know if you've got friends who have got children, do you know it's really hard but I think if you can don't compare your children

H: Yes

L: Because you know they're completely different and actually you wouldn't want them to be any different

H: No

L: They're little beings – little people aren't they?

H: Yes

L: And so children's taste buds change and develop in the same way, do you know as ours do

H: Yes

L: And you know you remember your first cup of coffee or your first plate of spaghetti, you know how difficult it was to eat or how it tasted, and so some children just come to different foods at different times and it's good I think – you know don't force the children to eat something that they don't want to eat

H: Yes

L: Because it might work in the short term but it will put them off for much longer

H: Yes

L: So you know just leave it for a little bit and then go back and try again, or try it with some of the little foods that they already like, and actually it's great you know with those two children that there is a good role model

H: That's true. So the older one's eating better –

L: So if the mum's a good role model, the sibling's being a good – you know that's fantastic for the younger one, do you know so actually everything's there and –

H: Little by little she'll start catching on, the younger one and hopefully start picking up on what the older one's eating and they'll get there in the end won't they?

L: Yes of course they will and you know it's little by little isn't it, because mums do a fantastic job with the food that they give their children, and you know everything they do for them, and sometimes you can really focus on what they don't do

H: Yes and get really hung up about it and worried about it

L: And actually if you put it in the bigger picture you realise that they're – you know there's loads of things that they're eating that they're really happy with that's going well about meal times that are good, but you focus on the fact they won't have their Brussels sprouts or their peas, so I think, do you know, it's good to remember lots of good things. And their taste buds do change over time so don't –

H: Yes. We all know that. I used to hate broccoli, I really like it now. Although my 3 year old loves it; that's a bit strange isn't it? We've had a question in from Natalie and she says "has the recession and reduced budgets made it more difficult for mums to be able to give their children healthy foods?" Or actually maybe it's made it easier; maybe you could grow your own? What do you think about that?

L: Yes the point that you made Lis is absolutely right. I know more families now have gone down that route of actually trying to produce some of their own food

H: Yes

L: Rather than buy it because it can be cheaper. I think as well, do you know it's made mums even more creative and you know mums are fantastically creative in the supermarket. And I think you know with the recession and with what's happening with the economy do you know rather than go into the supermarket and put things in the trolley that you want –

H: That you always have

L: And seeing how much it costs at the end, you know mums are much more likely to go in with a budget now, a set budget and go around and think how am I going to make best use of that money? You know and buy the things that I want to, and to actually buy some of the things that you don't always buy, because often you know with the supermarket shop you go and buy the things you normally buy

H: You get exactly the same things don't you and then you go to someone else's house and you think oh that's nice, where did you get that from and she says oh I got it from ... and I think oh I'll try that and you think – yes it's good to mix and match sometimes isn't it?

L: Yes and do you know I think it's great if you're in the supermarket and again it takes a little bit longer but you know if you take the children at a time when you're not feeling too tired

H: When it's quieter maybe

L: When it's quieter, or you know you can do it online now because children are so you know, computer savvy –

H: That's a good idea yes

L: Take you on a virtual tour. But it's great you know with my ten year old, and he actually works out you know which is the cheapest. It's a good little – he does his maths without even thinking about it

H: Fantastic. You've got yours well trained haven't you? Goodness me!

L: Very well trained

H: We've had one in fresh in from Elizabeth, and she says "my little girl won't drink milk. How else can I get calcium into her diet?" Any tips on more calcium into diets?

L: Yes calcium's really important isn't it?

H: Yes growing bones and –

L: Yes for teeth and bones and – it's interesting isn't it, because everyone associates calcium with milk

H: With milk, yes

L: And actually lots of children aren't so keen on milk. So the Hovis Best of Both is a really good source of calcium

H: Right

L: So you know that's – certainly look at alternative ways, you know and you know just a couple of slices of that will give you, a child a quarter of the calcium intake for the day

H: I didn't think that bread has calcium in it. That's amazing isn't it? That's amazing.

L: Yes and I think that's why it's good as a mum –

H: So a cheese sandwich, a cheese sandwich you're pretty sorted aren't you if you give them a cheese sandwich there's loads of calcium in it. Cheese sandwich and a yogurt, fantastic

L: And I think you know for breakfast, a scrambled egg on toast or beans on toast or cheese on toast

H: Yes that's true

L: You've got a really good beginning because you've got that fibre and the calcium in the bread, you know the children eat it because it's white and it's got all that goodness and it's all there on a plate for them

H: Yes fantastic. Well I hope that helps. I don't know about the milk, get the bread inside you. There we go. One in from Catherine, final question actually she says "my husband is very firm with the kids and won't let them leave the table until they've eaten all their greens." That's very old school isn't it? "Whereas I'm a little bit more laid back, but it sometimes causes a problem between us and in front of the children." Bit of fisticuffs at the dinner table – that's not good is it?

L: That's an interesting one isn't it because I think when you have children you suddenly find out that you – how you have different opinions with your partner and food could become a real focus for that

H: That's right and his parents were maybe much more strict than her parents and you – mmm difficult one

L: And I think the important thing here is you know for you as mum and dad to sort it out

H: Yes

L: And decide what your strategy's going to be at the meal table

H: Behind closed doors, without the children there. Yes

L: Do it when you're both feeling calm

H: Yes that's true

L: Because in the great scheme of things there'll be loads of things that are going well in family life

H: Yes

L: And you both want the best for your children, you've just got different ways of you know making it happen. So I think yes away from the children. Because otherwise it's absolutely confusing for the children you know and they play mum off against dad

H: Yes

L: And that way – you know pandemonium lies so I think – and do you know I think there are times in life when you know, you have disagreements, relationships with friends and family and you know I think as a role model for your children, it's one of the things that you do, you can do isn't it? Negotiate, compromise –

H: Yes compromise

L: You know give a little bit here – so it's not an either / or, it's about compromise isn't it and being a team, and that's what a family is, and I think if your children see you doing that I think at the meal table, or in any aspect of family life, then that's a really, you know great lesson for them to learn

H: Ok well some good tips there Lorraine, thanks so much for coming in. You've been a breath of fresh air, I have to say, thank you very much. And if you want more information about sort of healthy eating and recipes and all sorts of stuff, then you can go to the website which is hovisbakery.co.uk, and why don't you just bin those fast food burgers and bring on the broccoli mums and dads, get creative, and you never know, your kids might surprise you. Thanks very much for watching the Parenting Show, and we'll see you next time. Bye bye

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