Business

H: Lis Speight, host
S: Sally Hinks, financial director, Dorothy Perkins
C: Clive Davis, finance recruitment specialist

H: Hello and welcome to the Business Show brought to you today by the Chartered Institute for management accountants. I’m Lis Speight. Now then while we’d all like to be rich and famous, we’d also need to consider a practical career with long-term prospects which is why the sharp students look to a career in business. Whether it’s in accountancy or retail, when you’re up against thousands of other applicants, how do you make yourself stand out? Well if you’re looking for some top tips then you’re in the right place because I’m pleased to say that joining me today is the financial director of Dorothy Perkins, Sally Hinks, welcome along Sally, lovely to see you

S: Thank you

H: And also top finance recruitment specialist Clive Davis, welcome along Clive

C: Hello

H: Great to see you both. Now Clive and Sally are going to be talking to us a little bit about how they got into the industry and a few top tips on how to make your CV and your interview techniques stand out. But this is an interactive show and we are live and we’d love you to get involved, so if you have any questions for Sally or Clive about thinking of getting into accountancy, thinking of getting into finance then do get them in to us, all you have to do is pop your name and your question that’s in the box that’s on the screen, press submit or send and it’ll come through to us here in the studio and we’ll try to get through as many as we can. But let’s kick off the chat by asking Sally a little bit about her career path – why did you choose to go into finance? First of all tell us what you do and why you chose that career path?

S: Ok well I’m the finance director of Dorothy Perkins as you said, and I’ve worked for Arcadia for about 10 years now, and I’m quite similar to probably people watching this actually, I was at university, I was doing a degree which had an element of finance in it

H: And what was that degree?

S: It was management and finance

H: Right

S: At Southampton, and I started off just doing management and then did a couple of finance modules and decided I quite liked them, and then had a presentation actually at our university from CIMA and thought oh actually that’s quite interesting, it’s something that’s similar to the modules that I like

H: Right

S: And maybe that is a career that I would consider. So I then actively looked for companies that offered CIMA as part of the training program

H: Because CIMA have their own syllabus and what have you don’t they?

S: Yes so I’d – because it was similar to the course that I’d been doing I like the modules that I was doing at university, I thought I’d do more of that, look for things that – look for companies that offered CIMA training and then when I went round the old kind of milk float thing –

H: Yes the milk run or whatever they call it?

S: I don’t know what they call it, Arcadia stood out to me because it was clothes and I just thought wow I can do finance and clothes how perfect!

H: Everyone’s dream!

S: And then it just all started from there really, so I joined the grad scheme at Arcadia and I’ve moved around all the different brands and worked across, you know different roles and gradually worked my way up

H: Yes, and you hold quite a bit position now at Dorothy Perkins, so well done you

S: Thank you

H: And Clive, you’ve had quite a varied career actually haven’t you?

S: Yes indeed

H: Tell us a little bit about it, how you started

C: Indeed, well I used to read about finance, I had a long commute in a job I did previously and I used to read the accountancy pages all the time, and up came the opportunity to work for a finance recruiter and I found that quite exciting, because I thought well I’m going to get a chance to work with lots of ambitious people, and I’m going to get a chance to work with lots of exciting companies, and that was – 15 years ago now, so it’s been fascinating watching the world of business and finance change over those years, up to the present day

H: So you had an interest in finance from a young age then really – why was that do you think?

C: I think for me it’s the way it linked in with the commercial world, I wouldn’t say I was a numbers type / mathematician type but I realised that you know business, you need ot know your numbers, you need to have a grasp of finance and those that have that grasp, you know, get on, so I thought ok this is my way of being part of that chain, and over that time you get to work with a number of exciting individuals as their careers progress, and you get to work with some fantastic companies as well who are looking to secure that top talent

H: Yes. Now accountants don’t maybe have the best kind of reputation, everyone thinks they’re a bit boring. Sally, you’re a woman, you’re obviously working in finance – obviously working in the finance world, it’s not boring is it?

S: No and I think what’s brilliant is I think when you work in a company like Arcadia or in a retail company you can be doing a finance role but it’s so commercial, really you’re so much part of a team who are there running the brand that it doesn’t feel like you’re stuck in a corner just adding up numbers, you’re really involved in all the day-to-day decisions really of trade, which is really exciting

H: And you said Arcadia’s quite a young group as well so you’re surrounded by young, like-minded people

S: Lots of people who are really young, yes so it’s a really lively and vibrant atmosphere

H: Yes so it’s not just jobs for the boys and it’s not boring, so – well let’s crack on with some of your questions actually, and Sean’s sent one in and he wants to know “someone told me that employers are now looking more closely at the personal interest section of your CV these days. Is this true? Shall I be honest about some of my obscure hobbies?” Whatever they are Sean! What do you say to that Clive? A CV’s quite difficult to put together

C: It is indeed, because people think how do I differentiate myself without scaring anybody off? And you’re quite right, often, especially at this stage when people are graduating and a lot of the CVs people have had similar experiences, that can be one of the things that differentiates them, but similarly if we take today’s discussion and finance and your qualification, the CIMA qualification, if there is a link you can link your interest with also your commercial edge

H: Right

C: That’s tremendously valuable as well because people will see – ah this person’s outgoing, they’re gregarious but they’ve also got a focus on their career path as well

H: And is there something you shouldn’t put on your CV? I mean if there’s something really weird and wonderful, would – would people think you’re being a bit whacky? What are the pitfalls?

C: There shouldn’t be too much detail, it should be something – one of the good things about the CV is, if there’s something that is a little bit whacky or off-beat as it were, it can be put, but expect to answer questions about it. Sometimes people like to expand a little bit too much and it’s that bit that people find, you know can be difficult, can be cheesy, because you don’t get a second chance to re-present that, and if it’s presented incorrectly that can be a bit of a turn-off

H: So how long should your CV be?

C: Certainly at this stage for people, certainly 2 pages – no more than 2 pages

H: And how do you make it stand out? Funny fonts? Funny coloured paper? Or is that a no-no?

C: In the old days, in the old days using a paper other than white used to be one of the ways, but these days really avoid the large personal statement, but certainly put something in your application that links specifically to the job that’s being advertised, or the job that you’re applying for, because again a lot of positions these days also require an application form

H: Right yes

C: So again it’s about making those links rather than a generic personal statement because there is no link

H: Yes ok. So Sally, CV tips – how long is your CV? Have you got one these days?

S: No –

H: Do you keep it updated?

S: I have got one that I always kind of keep updated and that’s – I try and keep it to about a page and-a-half

H: Right. And how do you make yours stand out?

S: Well I think when you’ve – it’s probably a bit different when you’ve been working for a bit, you’re talking about your current roles, talking about the experience that you’ve got and you can kind of say some of your key achievements and things like that. I think people who are maybe at university and haven’t got any work – relevant – work experience – or you know a full-time job to talk about, it is a little bit more challenging, and for people who – for our group, and we actually have an application form as you referred to, and it’s quite specific and they ask about 3 questions that you’ve got to then give your example of when you demonstrated a skill, and really that – the key is to try and make those stand out, somehow – we always consider the application form as a whole but really it’s answering those questions in kind of a succinct and clear way, and making your point and just trying to say really say what’s different about you but without going on and on that is the key I think

H: Ok, you were talking there Sally about maybe not necessarily having enough work experience to put on your CV, and that’s a good point actually, we’ve had a question in from David and he wants to know “is it worth gaining lots of work placements prior to making a decision about a career?” What would you say to that Clive?

C: I’d say certainly, any introduction to the world of work is going to be valuable. I also think it helps people really evaluate what they would like to do, because sometimes people try things, really excited about it and it turns out it’s not quite right, so if you can get that sort of experience then certainly that’s tremendously valuable yes

H: Do you have people, work placements with you Sally?

S: You can do a year placement, some of the sandwich courses at university have a year out in industry and we have people who come and do that, and that’s a brilliant way of them finding out if that career’s for them, because they get a whole year there. Some of the danger with doing a week experience here and there means that you quite often get stuck doing the photocopying

H: Yes

S: So –

H: Find where the coffee machine is and that’s about it

S: So it needs to be really relevant and useful, but definitely if you can get that I think it helps

H: Ok well good advice there. We’re about halfway through the show actually, it’s flying by, so if you want to get your questions in then please do, just type your name and question in the box that’s on the screen, press submit and it’ll come through to us here. And Lara from Putney did just that and she wants to know “if I pick a high flying business career I’ll probably always be London-based so I won’t get the home life I want. What should I do? I’m worried my early career decisions will effect the rest of my life.” They probably may actually. Clive what would you say to that?

C: I’d say the opposite, if I look at myself, I’m a Londoner, I started work in London but I then spent 14 months in Birmingham, I spent a year in Manchester

H: Oh right

C: I spent a year in Holland and two years in Scotland, all with the same employer, so there’s two things there – a) certainly having travelled round I think there are many other cities that offer just as strong commercial opportunities for individuals. Again lots of – I work in finance recruitment and I was working with lots of management accountants and finance people in all those cities, and similarly again sometimes it offers the opportunity, you can have the added security of travelling with your company, and a lot of companies these days are actually quite keen to find the people who wouldn’t mind relocating, and my big piece there would be do it. You worry you’re going to miss something, you miss nothing, you’re never far away from home, you can always keep in touch, and often when you come back it turns out you’ve missed very little

H: Yes so London maybe is the hub of things but

C: Yes

H: There’s plenty of places to branch out to as well so don’t feel you’ve just got to be London based. Well I hope that helps Lara, she lives in Putney anyway so maybe she’s wanting a bit of a change! And also do you think there’s much home working these days and sort of flexible hours and that sort of thing? Do you think that’s on the increase?

S: Yes I think so, there’s certainly a large part of our brand, not necessarily just finance but who do work from home on the odd day or actually have more of a part-time job actually, do nine-day fortnights so I think it is – seems to be a trend that is increasing

H: Yes with computers you should be able to do anything anyway these days, we’re just slowly coming round to it aren’t we? Moving on to some interview techniques maybe. You’ve done your CV, you’ve used those killer tips suggested by Clive and Sally – you’ve got in through the door. How do you go about impressing an employer then? What would you say Sally? It’s a difficult one because many people have never even had a job interview before have they?

S: I know, yes I think if you can get interview practice before you go –

H: How do you do that?

S: Well I don’t know what they offer at universities, if you can go to your career services and maybe they’ll offer interview questions, get your friends practice, look on books or the internet to give you actual examples of questions, because the main – you really have to sell yourself in that interview. You need to be, I think, enthusiastic, passionate about why you’re there, done your research, be really articulate, friendly, confident but not too confident

H: There’s a bit of a fine line, you don’t want to appear arrogant but then you don’t want to seem like a real mouse. Do your research, that’s a good tip

S: A number of people who come on assessment centres and haven’t done their research is astonishing and it’s just really you want to know you know why do they want to do finance, why do you want – for us – why do you want to do retail – why Arcadia, and just be really clear about why you want to do that role. It doesn’t mean you have to really focus on just one role, but anything you do apply for make sure that you do actually really want to do it, and that you can –

H: Yes that’s a good point

S: And you can express that

H: And I suppose with the internet there’s no excuse for not doing a bit of research now is there Clive –

C: Quite right, quite right

H: I mean, what would you say are the biggest pitfalls that people fall into with interviews?

C: I’d say – I’ll pick up on that point, the –these days it’s so much more easy to get hold of the sort of information one might require. I’d certainly challenge people like myself, I’m a finance recruiter, at Robert Half we provide an interview questions guide for individuals

H: Right. That’s good so you can actually sit at home and get your head round it?

C: That’s right, get your head round it because you do the research but also you look at the sort of questions, especially if you’re looking to get into finance, so ours are very much geared there, and I’d encourage anybody looking to get into a certain role is find out who the main recruitment companies are within that sector and challenge them. They’ll either have – as we do – information on our website or they’ll be able to provide you with info, but in addition to that the point you mentioned, it always surprises me – people do some research, they do, but they just don’t do enough

H: No

C: It’s like well hang on, this could be your career, this could be your job for the next couple of years

H: They maybe don’t take it seriously enough

C: Spend some time on it, don’t just do the standard ones, really dig down and then it actually makes it easier to ask questions come the interview and often that’s where – for a lot of employers – if they’re hiring, they’re hiring within finance, they then say ok what questions do you have for us, and that’s their – if they’ve done their research, that’s when they can challenge and uncover some things about the company’s infrastructure

H: But then you don’t want to appear too cocky do you?

C: No. Not at all

H: It’s a fine line isn’t it?

S: You just need to be genuine really

H: Yes

S: But I think it can really make you stand out, you know fi you’ve been say applying for Arcadia and say you just went down the high street and went down a few shops and even spoke to a manager and just said what are your issues at the moment, what do you think are the main challenges, and then actually in an interview just say “oh I actually popped into a Burton and I asked the manager what the issues were” – I think that would really make somebody stand out. It’s not being over-confident and saying “I know all this” it’s just being honest about the fact they went and said, and that they demonstrated that they’re interested and made the effort

H: Ok. And can you actually at Arcadia, can you actually study whilst working at Arcadia?

S: Yes

H: Do you have sort of work placements like that, I mean have you got the CIMA -

S: Yes. So we have a 3 placement program which runs – each placement is roughly a year long in different kind of brands doing different kind of roles, and running alongside that you do your CIMA qualification, so you study in the – you go to college in the evenings or weekends, so it’s quite hard –

H: It’s a tough year isn’t it?

S: It’s quite hard work and –

H: It prepares you doesn’t it for –

S: And you get some time off to revise and then do your exams, but it’s worth it. At the time it might not seem like it but it is worth it

H: Yes and what sort of personal qualities would you say suited someone in finance, Clive?

C: I would say having worked in finance for many, many years, you’ll find every single personality that –

H: That’s reassuring isn’t it?

C: You couldn’t box it like that. In fact I’d even say if you approach some of the professional institutes like CIMA, they’ll be able to give more information about how to approach, how to present, how to approach that world, those sorts of positions, but it would be unfair to anybody at this stage to box in, I think there’s a lot of people who really enjoy what they do within finance, and as we said at the beginning it’s very, very commercial, you’re at the front end of what’s happening. No company can exist without an accounting function

H: Ok. Now if you’ve done – do you necessarily have to have done a finance degree? I mean say you’ve been doing an arts degree and you suddenly – say someone’s watching this and thinking actually maybe I could get into finance. Can you move across like that?

S: Yes

H: What would you say Sally?

S: Yes definitely, like I said when we look at the application form we do look at it as a whole so if someone’s done a finance degree you do think brilliant, because that does help with your qualification, you get some reassurance that they’ll be able to do the job, but absolutely we would consider people who have done other degrees, and there’s a whole host of people at Arcadia who have done history degrees and all sorts of things so it’s definitely something that you can transfer into

H: Ok and before we go, we’re almost out of time actually – top tips Clive for getting yourself noticed when there’s all those thousands of other graduates out there?

C: In terms of getting yourself noticed, as I said make sure that when you look at the role you’re applying for, when you get a chance to be individual, you make that link between the role and yourself

H: Right

C: And again highlight some of the things that are going to be of interest that you’ve done that you’ve achieved, that you want to be questioned on that are going to be of interest to the employer you’re approaching

H: Ok, well Sally and Clive thanks so much for coming in, it’s been really interesting. And we have two shining examples here of how finances are a fantastically interesting career to get into, so don’t spend all your time in the student bar, get out there and get yourself noticed and if you want to find out some more information about the world of work, the world of finance, the world of accounting you can go to CIMA website which is www.cimaglobal.com. Well good luck at whatever you choose to do and we’ll see you next time. Bye bye