Education

H: Lis Speight, host
D: Dave Mack, Ford Motor Company
L: Lynsey Slack, Meryll Lynch

H: Hello and welcome to the Education Show, brought to you today by the Chartered Institute of Management Accountants, also known as CIMA.  I’m Lis Speight.  Now then, are you at college, studying hard and making career decisions, or maybe you’re a parent of a son or daughter who is doing just that?  Not yet sure where all that hard work may take you, or maybe your kids are asking you for career guidance and you aren’t sure of all the answers.  Well don’t panic, because help is at hand, because today I’m joined by two people who are both enjoying successful careers in the world of business and finance.  Dave Mack from Ford Motor Company, welcome along Dave

D: Good afternoon

H: And also Lynsey Slack from the investment bank Meryll Lynch, welcome along Lindsey

L: Thank you

H: Great to see you both.  Now Lynsey and Dave are going to be talking us a little bit through their career paths and a little bit about careers advice for you and where to go next if you’re thinking of getting into the world of finance.  But remember that this is a live show and we’re interactive, so if you’ve got a question for either of our guests then do get them into us.  All you have to do is to pop your name and your question in the box that’s on the screen, press submit and it’ll come through to us here in the studio and we’ll try to get through as many as we can.  But before we get onto your questions, let’s talk to Dave and Lynsey a little bit about their career paths.  So Dave, tell us about your career, how did you actually get started?

D: Ok well I actually graduated from university about 20 years ago

H: Right

D: I did a degree in aero-nautical engineering

H: Oh right

D: And I was looking for something that I could use to combine industry and finance, and that’s when I started looking at courses involving CIMA, and I joined Ford Motor Company straight from university

H: So you’ve been there a long time then haven’t you?

D: I have indeed, it’s unusual these days, but long term career there

H: Yes, and tell us a little bit about what your job is now, if it’s not too complicated!

D: I’m actually in a cross-functional role at the moment really a business partner to the marketing and sales organisation and the IT organisation together with the finance responsibility, developing and rolling out our new finance systems, and our management information systems out to the organisation and maximising the revenue we get

H: Ok so you’re very involved in the finance side of things

D: Yes

H: Lynsey on the other hand, you’re sort of at the start of your career really at the moment aren’t you?

L: Yes

H: You’re at Merryll Lynch studying, or you’ve just got your CIMA qualification, is that right?

L: Yes I’m just a passed finalist, I’ve just passed my final stage

H: Well done, well done.  And how do you start out and tell us a little bit about your career path and why you chose to go into finance

L: When I was at school I did economics A Level and I was quite interested in it so I decided to do an economics degree, so I combined that with finance as well, so I did business economics, and I also – whilst at university I did a 4 year course

H: Right

L: Which combined a sandwich course which is where I went out into industry and did work experience for one year, so it was two six month periods

H: Right

L: So I worked for two different banks at that time and then following on from that I joined an investment bank after – it whet my appetite whilst I was at university so I went into the city once I finished university, and then started my CIMA qualification from there really

H: And that’s quite a bit deal, a CIMA qualification isn’t it?  Tell us a little bit about that, you just finished it, phew!

L: Phew yes!  No it is, it is hard work and obviously you’re working as well as combining your studies, but with a bit of dedication and hard work it is well worth it, because you do have, once you’ve got it you’ve got it for life, so it’s – you can do as little or as much as you want when you’re working as well

H: So you can pace yourself and structure –

L: Yes

H: It out so it suits you

L: Yes definitely

H: So Dave, Ford was actually CIMA’s employer of the year for 2007 wasn’t it?

D: Yes

H: Why do you think continuing to learn at work is so important?  How does that fit in with people’s lives?

D: I think it’s vital that you keep up-to-date with things as they’re changing, but also you can continuously develop in many areas.  I mean Ford, as you say we’re employer of the year, but we’re also a quality training partner and a development partner, so we don’t just focus on getting people through their exams, it’s their continuous professional development up and beyond that

H: Right

D: And whether you’re CIMA qualified or any of the other areas then we – that’s a philosophy that we had in Ford

H: So you’re obviously looking to support candidates coming in, because if you’re coming in straight from school or university it must be quite daunting joining a big company like Ford

D: Yes I mean finance in Ford in Europe is about 1200 people, but the actual different departments are much smaller, and one of the things that we have is when people come in, if they come in at the A level point or from a degree, we’ve got both a buddy system

H: Right

D: Which is more for the – here’s the canteen, here’s how you find your way around, here’s how you get from building A to building B, but also a true mentor, which is usually someone on the level above you or a couple of levels above you, who they can use to talk if they’ve got things that they don’t feel they’re doing the right job, or they want to have a slight change in career, they want to find more out about other functions within Ford, because within Ford if you think about what happens when you build a car, there’s actually a huge amount of processes right from the vehicle development side right the way through to the point-of-sale

H: Yes

D: So it gives you a very broad range of career options

H: Yes

D: Even within the finance function

H: Yes.  So finance obviously was for you Lynsey.  People might think it’s a little bit boring though – accountancy – not always everyone’s cup of tea.  Tell us why people – where you think people go from finance?

L: Well I think if you do have an interest in a mathematical and business side I think finance is quite an interesting subject for you, but also because I think it’s very versatile and you can work in any industry within, as a – within a finance function, so although I work for an investment bank, as I’ve got my CIMA now it’s very transferable into the corporate industry or –

H: So you can go into anything really because everybody needs an accountant, everyone’s got a finance department so you could go and work in fashion or football or film or anything that interests you really

L: Yes you can if you’ve –

H: If you’ve got that qualification

L: Yes once you’ve got that qualification you – the world’s your oyster

H: Yes.  So tell us a little bit more about that qualification then, how does it actually work, the CIMA qualification?  Once you get it, you get your job and you get up and running with it, how does it actually work?

L: Well I – I actually was exempt from some of the exams, there’s 3 levels, so there’s the certificate and then there’s the managerial level and the strategic level so I was exempt from a few exams for the certificate because of my degree was economics

H: Right so you’d already done some of it

L: Yes I’d done some of it, and then they do the strategic – sorry a managerial level which is intermediate, finance and management accountancy as well as management studies as well, so it combines both accountancy with business strategy, so it’s very interesting.  And then you do -  I think there’s six exams at that level and then there’s three at strategic, and finally you do your top CIMA paper which is a case study paper so –

H: Right.  Pretty tough then?

L: Yes

H: But well worth it in the end because once you’ve got it, it sets you up for life –

L: Yes definitely and now I can look back, I’ve now just finished so it’s nice to think that I’ve got my weekends to myself

H: Yes, phew. Ok well let’s move on to some of your questions, and we’ve got one in from John Ruback and he wants to know “how does my daughter find the best course for accountancy?  Can you recommend universities or colleges for me?”  So whereabouts did you go to Lynsey?

L: I went to Brunelle university and the reason why I chose Brunelle was because of their sandwich course, so it was a 4 year degree and I was able to do work experience as well, so that was one of the main things for me, and I think you know it was a good environment and I like the area that it was in so – and the course was good, so I think it all depends on what you’re looking for, whether it’s the course or if you want that combined placement as well

H: And how would you go about choosing your university or college, are there particular ones that have a reputation for accountancy or finance, would you know that?

L: I’m not too sure actually because my degree was business economics so obviously the London School – LSE is very good for economics, so that’s kind of how I would gauge it, but I think you would be able to find out which are good in what areas, from looking at the internet and prospectuses and things like that

H: Ok.  But it’s not just all about going to university Dave is it, you take sort of school and college leavers as well don’t you?

D: Yes we actually run two schemes – one is we take on graduates but we also run a scheme where we take people on who have got A levels which is the minimum requirement you need to start studying CIMA, and that’s a 3 or 4 year program depending on how quickly you go through the exams, but we provide day release to go off to college, and we actually do that at one of the sites very local to us so it’s a Ford specific lecture with BPP who provide our tuition

H: Right

D: So it’s a very stable process, I mean we’ve been working with CIMA and BPP now for nearly 20 years.  I was one of the first people to come through that –

H: Trailblazer!

D: That process, so you know it is a lot of hard work, but when you get people coming in at the A level stage they’re not necessarily building up some of the debt or things that they may have at university

H: Well that’s right, it’s a cheaper way of doing it actually isn’t it

D: You can still get a professional qualification at the end of it, and it doesn’t inhibit your career path in the future, you can still – we’ve got people, our European Accounting Director came through the management accountant trainee route so we’ve got people at all levels in the company, and it’s not seen as something that differentiates you once you’ve got your CIMA qualification

H: So if you know you’re wanting to go into finance and you’re at A level, A level level, you don’t necessarily have to go on to university then, you can go straight in

D: I think Ford is very easy, it’s one of the few companies that does offer that sort of as a real structure program, but about 40% of the people we’ve got studying at the moment are studying through – they came in with A levels, the remainder are graduates, so it’s – that varies up and down over time but you know it gives you a good idea of how many we bring in

H: Ok, that’s useful.  Now Sara from Essex had written in and she wants to know, she says “my daughter is a little bit shy, so I’m not sure if the world of business will be kind to her.”  Difficult question to answer isn’t it, I suppose it takes all types –

L: It does take all types definitely and I don’t think whether you’re an introvert or an extrovert should matter.  I think whether you’ve got the confidence and the capability to work in –

H: Yes

L: In a finance area that’s all that matters really, different mixes of people you know for different types of teams, it works well

H: And I suppose you can build up your confidence as you go along.  A lot of people at 18, 21 they’re not hugely confident but –

L: Yes definitely and you get more confident as you get familiar with your surroundings with the subject you’re doing, so when you’re working you get a lot more familiar with the way you work and the way your company works so I think it doesn’t really matter whether you’re shy or outgoing as opposed to whether you’ve got a good grasp and you know you’re confident enough to do the role

H: As long as you can do the job

L: Yes

H: Sorted.  Ok now Wendy Davis has written in and she wants to know “learning on the job sounds like a great idea, but does it mean that you don’t get any spare time?” Lynsey you’re a good one to answer that

L: I don’t think – well yes and no I think is the right answer to that because you do have to be dedicated and you do have to do hard work to get your qualification and you know I’m not going to lie, you do have to do some evening courses and weekends, and you do have to revise, but you know it’s not – it isn’t constantly revision, revision, revision

H: No and it’s not forever is it?

L: And it’s not forever either, and as I said before you can either, you can – it depends on how quickly or how slowly you can do it, so you can go through it within I think 2-3 years depending on what exemptions you have or you can take as long as you want, you can do 3 exams at a time and one at a time.  It’s up to you really

H: And do you have friends around you that are doing the same course?  I mean is there a sort of network of CIMA candidates?

L: Yes there is definitely and at Merryl Lynch we’ve got quite a good network of CIMA candidates who do it, so we do it together and you know we’ll study together study groups and I’ve just come off a rotational program at Merryl Lynch that aims specifically at people who are junior managers who are looking to go into a junior management position and then they’re combining that with their studies, so it definitely builds a support network as well with the people you’re working with

H: It’s nice to know you’re not the only one whose having to go through it

L: No, no

H: Ok.  And Dave what sort of qualities are you looking for in candidates, I mean you must get a lot of CVs and applications from candidates – what’s going to make people stand out?

D: I mean there’s a couple of things I mean clearly the academic results are important, we’re looking for people who are going to get usually first time passes through the exams

H: Right

D: But a lot of it’s around the personality and around a company like Ford, it’s a very diverse company, you can have people from all different backgrounds, all different walks of life.  It’s not just about having a set type of person, we’ve actually got a theme that we’ve got called One Ford which is Alan Mellalier’s put out, it’s all about aligning people around having one team, one objective, one goal, and I think people can contribute in many different ways to that, you know whether it’s you know there’s a set of core competence you expect from finance, like integrity, technical competence

H: Yes

D: But there’s also the softer people skills, that are very important.  How you work in a team, things like that.  And I think one of the things that having a large scheme in Ford helps us do is with the continuous professional development, it’s not just about being up-to-date with the latest standards, we can help out with those softer skills as well

H: Yes

D: So it’s a broad career development not just a pure finance piece

H: Ok.  We’ve got an interesting question from Maureen in, and she says “I see so many graduates leaving university but struggling to find work.  I’m wondering whether I should insist my son spends 3 years getting a piece of paper that may not necessarily help him.”  What are your thoughts Lynsey?  Do you have friends that didn’t do degrees

L: I do have some friends who didn’t do degrees and I think really it all depends on the person, of whether you want to do it.  But it is a life experience going to university

H: Yes

L: You definitely mature and grow up and you know there is a fun side to it as well as the studying and things like that

H: Yes

L: So I think you do have a life experience going to university but similarly you can go straight into work and do a similar – a similar role, like Dave was saying about – you know you can do CIMA, you don’t have to have gone to university to do CIMA you can do CIMA once you’ve done you’re a levels, so – I think it all depends on the person but it is –

H: It’s personal choice then

L: Yes it is I think it is, but it is a life experience as well

H: I would agree with that, I have to say that’s because I went to university, but if you didn’t go you’re getting your earnings quicker aren’t you?  Dave what would you say?

D: That’s one aspect of it, but it is definitely a personal choice.  You know some people may be questions about the confidence to start with, they may not feel comfortable going off and living away from home initially, you know with Ford we are able to offer them a route in and it gives them some of that experience but still mix with some of the people who have been to university, and it’s quite a large group that we bring in, so you get a different type of social interaction there, but we said about Merryl Lynch, the interaction and the way the students work together, that’s another network that you’ve got.  The students actually form part of our steering committee so each of the level of study is represented on our steering committee and works with the management of Ford to define how we can improve the scheme that we run, so you know they’re heavily involved from day one

H: So it’s personal choice then really isn’t it?

L: Yes

D: Yes

H: It depends how desperately you want to go, and also you’re influenced a lot by your friends I think as well, what they’re doing aren’t you and I don’t know – it depends how much you like your home down as well I guess!  Now Rosie wants to know “I’m really worried that when I choose my degree I’ll be stuck to one career path, and I don’t feel ready to commit my life to one profession.  What advice would you have for me?” That’s quite a difficult one isn’t it, Dave what would you say to that?

D: Well I actually studied aero-nautical engineering, so I did change career path.  And I think the experience of studying at university does bring a certain skill set, it doesn’t necessarily have to be a finance degree that we take people on with Ford for example

H: Yes

D: You can get some exemptions but you know you can also do the whole course and it doesn’t hold you back

H: Yes

D: But yes I made that choice sort of in my final year at university, I was looking at things that I enjoyed doing personally, and it was more the interaction and project management role that you get through being a business partner in finance, and working in an engineering company like Ford let me have the way in there –

H: Right yes

D: Saying well the engineers talk to the finance person and we respect them because we know they understand some of the principals we’re talking about

H: That’s a good point, that’s a good point.  What would you say to that Lynsey?  You went in and did your business and economics course

L: Yes

H: But you didn’t necessarily know that you were going to go into finance?

L: Yes but I don’t think I was thinking of what career I was going to go into once I finished university, I think I was doing economics A level as as well doing maths, and I quite enjoyed it so I thought you know to go and do that at university, so I don’t think it really helped or hinders you in either way, with what course you do at university to what you want to do as your career, I think it’s just something that you have an interest in

H: Something that you enjoy, I think that’s a really good tip actually isn’t it, do something that you enjoy, because you’re going to be there for three years so you might as well enjoy it

L: Yes

H: Now we’re almost out of time actually but before we go, Lynsey, best advice you’ve been given, worst advice you’ve been given do you think, career-wise?

L: I heard a good thing the other day actually, someone said your career is not a destination it’s a journey

H: Right

L: So with it’s something that you build on and you get experience in different things and you build and build and build

H: Right

L: It’s not just an end point.  I always have trouble when people ask me where do you want to be in 5 years time?  I don’t really know because it’s wherever things take me, so that’s the best bit of advice I’ve been given

H: Keep an open mind

L: Yes

H: Enjoy it whilst you go along

L: Yes definitely

H: Ok.  Dave, difficult question isn’t it?

D: I think a similar one, I mean the one people always say to me is the journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, so keep on moving but don’t sort of pre-empt your career too much.  I mean when I left university I didn’t speak a language, I’ve since spent 6 years in Germany and I’m fluent in German now.  I didn’t even get a German O level

H: So you just don’t know where things are going to take you

D: You don’t know where things are going, I spent 6 years living abroad in total, had a great career with Ford and wouldn’t have – didn’t know I expected that when I left university and maybe I was thinking 3, 4 years down the road once I got my CIMA qualification, but beyond that it – things always come up and give you little surprises, they’re usually good

H: That’s good!  And just finally, top tips for students or parents worrying about careers?  Maybe thinking about a career in finance

L: Well I think if you enjoy it, do it, you know and the thing is with a career you can always change, you can always do different things, so you know and if you’re looking to go to university, do something that you enjoy like we said, because you are there for 3 years so – and you know just enjoy it, enjoy it really.  You can always change what you want to do

H: Yes exactly, nothing’s set in stone is it?

L: No

H: Ok.  Dave, top tips?

D: I think do a bit of research, you know and make sure that the company that you go and work for is a company that you, you can see yourself moving forward in.  It’s not one-size-fits-all out there

H: No

D: But I think it’s important that you do feel very comfortable, it’s like walking and buying a new home, you generally know buying a house how you feel when you move – if you feel very comfortable with a company, and there’s a lot of companies offering a lot of schemes out there – get one that fits you

H: Ok.  Good advice there, and thanks very much for coming in, Dave and Lynsey thanks so much

L: Thank you

H: So if you want any more information about the Chartered Institute of Managements accountants you can go to the website, which is www.cimaglobal.com and there’s lots of top tips about how to get into finance, and if you’re heading into you’re a levels, heading in to your exams then best of luck, and you never know you might end up with a future in finance.  Well that’s it from the Education Show for today, thanks for watching.  Bye bye