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H: Murray Norton, host
L: Loyd Grossman
C: Chef, Lara
H: Hello and welcome to the Food and Drink show, I'm Murray Norton. Now, when it comes to food, most of us like the idea of trying new dishes and seeing if we can actually experiment once we get into the kitchen, but do we actually do it? Well to discuss that and much more I'm joined by the master taster, Loyd Grossman – Loyd, great to see you, thanks for coming in
L: Thanks Murray
H: And you know let's just talk about this taste issue at the moment because you're not only known as a food critic and also a writer and a TV presenter, but you've also developed some exciting ranges of distinctive sauces to encourage us, if you like, to stimulate our taste buds a little bit more. But new research, what is it 96% of us would like to try something new
L: Yes, yes
H: But then less than half of us do it once a month
L: It is very odd because there's a huge disparity between people's aspirations in terms of being adventurous, and what they actually do in the kitchen. Now you know as a nation we now have very cosmopolitan tastes because we have all these wonderful South Asian restaurants – Thai and Italian etc etc etc, so we are very sophisticated diners, and of course when we travel we eat very sophisticated food, but somehow at home a lot of people still cook the same very limited repertoire of dishes over and over again, I guess because they feel pushed for time and also they're afraid of failing in the kitchen
H: It's the comfort zone, you know it's that I know I can do this spaghetti bolognaise – I guess that's one of the popular ones?
L: Yes and it's a great dish, but I wouldn't want to eat it more than once a week
H: Right
L: And you know if you eat it more than once a week, any dish becomes slightly boring, so really I think people have got to be much more adventurous in the kitchen, without going wild, and also rediscover the fun and the pleasure of finding new things to taste, new things to eat and new things to cook
H: So if we've got – what 2 or 3 dishes that we probably stick to as our repertoire all the time
L: Yes
H: That's what most of us have got in our mind
L: Yes, yes
H: Can we develop those dishes rather than going completely new?
L: Well yes of course, I mean there are a lot – there are a million ways to make a fish pie for example
H: Sure
L: But also there is something very exciting about trying to cook a new dish for the first time, and actually pulling it off, and I think one of the effects that all the celebrity chefs may have had, is that sometimes they make people feel that the whole preparation of food has to be highly technical, highly cutting edge, highly progressive. I always say keep it simple, if you have great raw materials, great ingredients and an idea of what you want to come up with, anyone can produce great food without a huge amount of technical expertise
H: It's not rocket science
L: No it's not rocket science, nor need a lot of dishes take any longer than 15 or 20 minutes so you know I would advise people to begin by shopping very carefully and looking, looking at things in the market and the supermarket, or in the farm shop, and trying to choose an ingredient every now and again that they haven't cooked with before, and also buying whatever is in season, so for example right now I'm virtually living on asparagus
H: It's great, it's just perfect –
L: It's great and they're going to be gone in a few weeks
H: And perfect and easy to cook
L: Yes, let's enjoy them while we can, and you can do all sorts of things with them, you know asparagus risotto, asparagus with pasta, grilled asparagus etc etc, so I would say just be open minded, relax, be creative and have some fun
H: Ok. Questions. We've got plenty of questions already in, this is live so if you do have any questions for Loyd now is the time to send them in. little box at the bottom of the screen there, all you've got to do is put your question there, press send, it comes directly through to us in the studio here and we'll be able to ask those questions like Johnny has just done, thank you Johnny for the question. Johnny says “I'm a rubbish cook. Whenever I've tried it just doesn't seem to work for me, so where can I start and build some confidence from? I'd love to be able to impress the in-laws.”
L: Yes I think impressing the in-laws is always valuable
H: It's a good box to tick isn't it?
L: I think what you should do is begin with a recipe that you are very familiar with, namely you know what the end product is supposed to taste like. So for example if when you go to a restaurant, your favourite dish happens to be spaghetti bolognaise, let's say, choose that to start off with because it's very difficult to cook a recipe unless you have a clear idea of what the tastes are like, because the one thing that no cook book can show you is what something is supposed to taste like. You've got to know it yourself and develop your palette, so I would say start with a dish that you love, make sure it's a simple one and keep at it until you get it right
H: Ok we've – you work very very closely, because I know you do these fantastic sauces, the distinctive sauce range that you've got. When you're doing those, I know you work yourself experimenting
L: Yes
H: Always stretching the boundaries –
L: Yes
H: A little bit more, so you work with development chefs and you work very closely with them which is important to you isn't it?
L: Yes absolutely because there is always something to learn, and I only like doing stuff where I'm also learning as I'm doing, and a lot of these chefs are so talented and have such specialised knowledge of food that one is always discovering things, and sometimes those things turn out to be so significant, so important that you know, you use them for the rest of your life.
H: Ok we know, we sent a camera crew down to watch you in action in one of the development kitchen that you've got, and one of the chefs that you work alongside there is Lara,
L: Yes
H: And so let's see you with Lara in the development kitchen enjoying and learning something at the same time
Video footage
L: What we're going to begin with is by discussing something that seems very simple but it's so important, and that's tomato and basil sauce. Lara we've got two basic kinds of sauces and two approaches to sauce don't we in Italian cooking?
C: Yes, I think it's all to do with the seasonality and the availability of the tomatoes
L: Yes
C: So in the summer, Italians tend to use fresh cherry tomatoes, and very very little seasoning, they don't need to add anything because the tomato speaks for itself. In the summer, the Summertano tomatoes are picked and jarred or canned, and they can be used all the year round. It's a heavier flavour, you can see the difference here with the dark tomato and the lovely fresh tomato, so that needs a heavier base, so here is traditionally used is very finely chopped, in a Magimix, celery, onion, and carrot, which gives the sweetness that the tomato has lost in the canning process but my favourite sauce and I think the world's favourite sauce is the cherry tomato, a fantastic combination of extra virgin olive oil, garlic and the cherry tomatoes. Fresh tomatoes going in
L: Yes
C: Olive oil, with the garlic. Little bit of salt, black pepper, turn it down slightly. And then really really generous handful – sorry to reach over – of basil, which you literally just tear up to get the best flavour, and then to give it an extra kick add the –
L: Lemon
C: Lemon zest, the Amalfi lemons which really just brings out – also I love to see the colours in the pan, which is basically you know that's going to be good –
L: Yes
C: just because the yellow and the green and the red, and that's how we arrived at –
L: Yes
C: That
H: Well there you go that's fantastic. Really enthusiastic – great enthusiasm there from both you and from Lara, and always tasting things and just adding a little twist to them
L: Yes
H: I noticed there actually it was the tearing up of the basil leaves that fascinated everyone
L: Tearing of basil leaves, yes
H: People often chop the living daylights out of them don't they?
L: No, I mean with basil, you know there are two reasons not to cut it and reasons to tear it. You know allegedly when you cut it you can oxidise the edges of it so it might turn colour, but also cutting it does not release as much of that volatility that gives basil its wonderful aroma, so when you tear it you release more of the oils and you get more aroma, and also you know something it looks a lot nicer
H: But it's bigger as well, it's holding the flavour as opposed to being chopped to smithereens
L: Yes and it's just – I don't know it's just a more –
H: Rustic?
L: It's a more rustic and earthy way of doing it, and it just looks so much more generous and so much more inviting than little neatly cut symmetrical strips
H: Yes, and less processed isn't it?
L: And it's fun
H: Cooking should be fun right?
L: Yes
H: How many people see cooking as a chore rather than fun? I don't understand this
L: Well I suppose you know if you for example had to cook for a family every day, day after day after day, it would be a chore, and you know I can see why people in that situation can become slightly disillusioned, now I guess that's one reason why a lot of people will use a lot more convenience foods than in the past, because of course it liberates them from the day in, day out grind, but that means to me that when you are spending a little more time cooking and being a little more relaxed, you can do some really creative and interesting stuff, you know once you escape from the daily grind
H: Sure. Got a question just on – you were talking about convenience food there, Darren, thank you Darren, Darren said “I don't have much time to cook fresh food, but I'm concerned just using tinned and jarred food isn't good for me. What do you reckon Loyd?”
L: Well a lot of it depends on you know the actual quality, I mean there are some superb tinned food and there's some not very good tinned food. Equally with jarred food you will get some very very good products and some very ordinary products, so I think like all other forms of food it's not so much the generic element of is it tinned, is it jarred? But the real question is do I look at the label and see good quality ingredients do I think it's carefully prepared and then you know go ahead and use it and it's as good as anything else
H: Let's be perfectly frank about this, you do produce sauces that have your name on it, so you probably have to be pretty concerned about your reputation
L: Yes absolutely
H: And the fact that what goes into it is right
L: Yes, yes and you know putting sauces in glass jars is a really great way to keep the flavour, to give them a long enough shelf life so they can be convenient, and to do all of that without having to add any of these, you know voodoo ingredients. Nearly everything in all my sauces are sort of normal kitchen cupboard type of stuff
H: Alright, questions coming in thick and fast, just like the sauces! Sean from Wembley says “I love cooking and entertaining for the ladies but I tend to go easy on the garlic or anything that's a little bit strong. What herbs and spices with flavour should I use that won't effect the rest of the evening?”
L: Well you know I would say just be confident about flavours and considering how much garlic they use I wouldn't think that either the French or the Italians were particularly sluggish in the romantic department so I would worry about that too much and I would say that you know what is attractive to all people, you know men, women, all people are attracted by punchy, strong, sophisticated flavours so you know use any of those herbs and spices, but just use them in a measured way that's going to contribute to the success of the dish
H: I guess the thing is to use one or two herbs but don't use a variety of herbs on the same thing
L: Yes, yes
H: Because it just becomes
L: It becomes too confusing, it's like a lot of people shouting at each other
H: If you're going to do something with basil, do it with basil
L: Yes and don't mix basil with a load of other herbs
H: Alright. Shelley – “with Britain becoming a warmer climate” – this is Shelley Cooper who sent the question in, thank you Shelley – “can I grow more exotic herbs on the window sill?”
L: Well you know something, Shelley I think fairly soon you might be able to grow bananas on the window sill
H: It's getting that warm. It's certainly warmer round here, we've got some basil in here and it's smelling great, if only you could smell this, it's just great
L: Wonderful
H: Scratch your screen and you'll be able to smell it! Ok plenty of questions coming in, Maria, “there's so many varieties of tomatoes”, we've got some beautiful on the vine here cherry tomatoes, it looks stunning, and I think I might be having one of those in a moment. “When using fresh ingredients on a budget, which ones would you recommend?”
L: Well you know it helps to have a good green grocer who you can chat to. Unfortunately very few of us are near a good green grocer so we rely on supermarkets who do have a huge range of produce, you know you can go in and find 6, 7 different types of tomatoes. Often it's, you know by experience. A tomato that's really got a lovely, sunny, ripe flavour smells much better. You can often tell by the look. In general in the sort of northern climate that we live in the smaller cherry tomatoes are usually a better bet than bigger ones, but I've had some fantastic English tomatoes from the Isle of Wight for example, so it's really a question of very careful shopping and really really looking at the produce you're buying
H: Local as well, if you can get local even better because it's less journey time
L: Yes, absolutely
H: Andrew Dickens who's from Shortlist.com has sent us a question, thank you very much for that. “I'm a massive fan of thyme” – the herb not the time, “do you have a favourite seasoning and also there's too much fuss about the amount of salt we use, is there or isn't there? Should we be concerned? Most top chefs seem to love putting the salt on.”
L: Yes there is a lot of concern about salt and I think a lot of that stems from the fact that in many types of highly processed food salt is a fairly cheap shortcut to delivering a certain amount of flavour, so you know you have to use salt in cooking but use it very judiciously and don't allow it to mask all the other flavours. You know a little bit of salt will bring out natural flavours, too much salt and all you get is that processed salty taste. In terms of a favourite herb, I don't know, I mean I like thyme, I like basil, I love rosemary even though there aren't that many things you can do with it. I like experimenting and finding out about different herbs. I mean Thai basil for example, very different from normal basil but absolutely wonderful
H: Ok you've got Thai basil and you've also got lemon thyme which I think is absolutely fantastic
L: Lemon thyme is wonderful actually
H: Really aromatic as well. There's variations on each herb isn't there?
L: Yes
H: Ok. We've got a question in from Foodari.com, they're watching as well, nice to have you with us. Which suggestion for new and different cuts of meat would you give to their members – this is a different one – they're bored with the chops, the steaks and the wings. So what are we going to have?
L: Well they're bored with chops, steaks and wings. Well a very interesting steak that you probably haven't had much of but is very popular in France and in the United States, is what butchers here call Skirt Steak which is incredibly flavourful, it has to be cooked really rare and then sliced across the grain and it's absolutely delicious, so I'd give that try
H: Bit of skirt – wonderful. Viewlondon.co.uk – “what is your menu option of choice”, if you, you know if after this I have to take you out for an expensive meal, which I know I'm going to have to, what are you going to choose?
L: I'd, you know I tend to think that the best dish is the one that's on the table in front of me, and so much of a choice of what to order depends on the atmosphere of the restaurant, the weather, who you're with, how you're feeling, what you had for dinner last night, it's impossible to say what a favourite dish is. I like anything, and I do mean absolutely anything from cheese on toast on up, provided someone has produced it with some care and some attention and really good ingredients
H: Now Loyd, knowing that you're a TV television food presenter –
L: Yes
H: Mostly
L: Yes
H: And that you're a writer, and you're a food critic, do you get invited round for dinner or do people go –
L: Oh yes yes
H: Is it a pressure on people?
L: No, no there's no pressure at all because all – I think the worst thing in the world is to be overly pretentious about food or overly fussy about it. You know if you can't – if you can't enjoy it, I think you've really lost on something. You know food is not a competition, it's not about showing off, it's about sharing with people and being social and being generous, and it should be eaten in the same spirit in which it's cooked.
H: And this sense of adventure, I mean I can feel it in you and it's something that I enjoy myself, but getting the nation to be more adventurous, how are we going to do that?
L: Well I think by getting people to try things they haven't tried before but that they've seen. You know we all go shopping for food and we see loads and loads of stuff presented to us, and somehow tend to keep buying the same things. Well it's not really a huge leap to say well actually you know something, I always get some basil, maybe I will get lemon thyme on this shop. You know just go a little bit further, you don't have to go crazy and choose something so exotic that you have no idea what it is, but I would say you know just let your curiosity guide you to discover some new tastes
H: Experiment in the kitchen?
L: Yes. What's going to happen?
H: What's the worst that can happen?
L: Exactly. A take-away. Phone for a take-away!
H: It's not the end of the world is it?
L: No
H: It's not the end of the world. Do you experiment yourself, I mean –
L: Yes
H: We see you talking a lot about food and – but cooking at home's fun for you?
L: Oh I like it a lot actually because I do it for fun
H: Yes
L: I do it for fun, I get great pleasure out of it. Technically I don't think I'm particularly good but I know I can produce something that tastes really good, so you know I stick to, I like very rustic food and I cook Indian a lot, Thai, a lot of Italian, French, I'm doing more and more Spanish now, a bit of Mexican here and there, so yes I've got a pretty big repertoire
H: Yes you've got a few things going on
L: I've got a few things, yes I can feed myself
H: I'm very pleased to hear it. Loyd Grossman, the Taste Master, thank you so much for your time today, it's been a real pleasure to have you in the studio
L: Thanks
H: Thank you very much for joining us, and thank you very much indeed for joining us, thank you for all your questions as well, sorry we couldn't squeeze everyone in but there were a lot of questions very much the same so we managed to put them all together under one title, and I hope you'll join us again next time, and in the meantime do have a look at the website, it's Loydgrossmansauces.co.uk and you can find out a lot more information about Loyd and about all the sauce range as well, so we'll see you next time, thanks very much for joining us

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